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Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#71

Post by smoldesu »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #37
smoldesu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hold that Bitcoin is not the cause of the scams. I wish I could agree, as someone who remains eternally hopeful for crypto. Unfortunately, it's almost certainly not the case. When half a billion dollars goes missing from the US banking system, we can follow the paper trail every time. Criminals never cash out at that scale, especially when they wire money digitally. There's always an account to find, a wire trans…

But.. this isn’t true on two counts: Cartels smuggle huge amounts of money all the time, and the bitcoin hack involving a YC founder ended with the coins recovered. They were unable to tumble the coins without losing them.

Cartels smuggle cash. Cash is fairly untraceable, so it makes sense. If anything, it reinforces the idea that removing accountability from money encourages bad behavior.

> the bitcoin hack involving a YC founder ended with the coins recovered

Sometimes you get a happy ending. There's plenty of stories about the Wild West that don't end with two dead cowboys. On the other hand though, our banking system can almost universally guarantee a happy ending. Axie Infinity hacks simply don't happen on there. When someone is dumb enough to try it, they're in custody by the end of the day and their money likely never even left the source account in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#72

Post by dotnet00 »

alphabettsy wrote: post #68
dotnet00 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern regarding the underlying crypto being broken unexpectedly is probably covered by the fact that if encryption of that level of adoption and trust was broken, Bitcoin breaking would be the least of the internet's issues. For expected deprecations as technology progresses, it should be relatively easy to change algorithms and then fork the blockchain onto the new system, simultaneously phasing out the curren…

> it should be relatively easy to change algorithms and then fork the blockchain onto the new system Like deprecating insecure and outdated TLS? Doesn’t seem like a good example. It’s really not the same level of vulnerability. A crypto failure that allows for reading or altering of communications in-flight as it’s used in TLS now has a significantly different impact than if someone is able to alter the source of tru…

I assumed you were referring to the crypto within the blockchain's design itself becoming vulnerable. But if you're referring to more general vulnerabilities like with TLS, I'm not really sure how that's any different from the same being present on a traditional bank's site?

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#73

Post by apeace »

laszlo-kiss wrote: post #32
apeace wrote: post #16

The reason is because the real things that are happening in the cryptocurrency space are overwhelmingly negative. People are getting their wallets hacked, losing their savings by investing in pump-and-dump schemes, using "custodial" crypto wallets that defeat the whole purpose of crypto, raising "ICOs" that skirt securities laws, starting underground markets that sell heroin and guns, quitting their jobs to make a li…

Interesting, this sounds like the Old West. Look at it now. I think these hardships are the exact indicators of a dynamic new frontier. Apply caution, yes, but ignoring it might not be a good strategy either.

Your analogy is fair, but I'm not sure it works in the way you want it to. Cryptocurrency now exhibits a lot of the same issues that the Old West exhibited then (lawlessness, criminality, etc). But the Old West didn't result in some free-market hard-currency utopia. Eventually the powers that be brought in the same regulations, police, courts, etc that governed everything else. So that "Old West" was destroyed. In your analogy, that would be the "status quo financial system" taking over crypto and either outlawing it or changing it beyond all recognition.

> I for one, take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation that Bitcoin is a genuine threat to the existing financial system.

I think you are taking things the wrong way. I, too, dislike our current financial system and want it to radically change. And I, too, hope that cryptocurrency can play a part in that. Your assumption that others feel "threatened" by cryptocurrency just because they point out the negatives isn't a good one. They are just being reasonable and fair.

> Am I just a dumb ass?

No, but be careful of becoming a shill for crypto. Don't slide down the slippery slope of ignoring things that are bad -- or claiming that they aren't -- just because crypto may align with some of your values and beliefs. I'm not saying you are. But the wording of your original post leaves one to wonder whether you value your vision of a utopian financial system above the very real tragedies occurring every day in crypto. You can both love crypto and hate those tragedies.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#74

Post by laszlo-kiss »

smoldesu wrote: post #33
laszlo-kiss wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed using Bitcoin for payment does not seem a good fit. However, Bitcoin could be viewed as the world reserve currency that is impossible to debase. This can give stability to all other currencies that are based on it. I think that would be a good thing. It would reduce governments' ability to deficit spend, thus reduce the likelihood of financing armies that can be used for aggression... It would not eliminate wa…

> I hold that Bitcoin is not the cause of the scams. I wish I could agree, as someone who remains eternally hopeful for crypto. Unfortunately, it's almost certainly not the case. When half a billion dollars goes missing from the US banking system, we can follow the paper trail every time. Criminals never cash out at that scale, especially when they wire money digitally. There's always an account to find, a wire trans…

I'm not saying that the US would tie the dollar to Bitcoin willingly. It would have to do it out of necessity to be able to interact with nations that have resources that the US needs.

This of course applies to all countries, not just the US. The dollar as the world reserve currency enables the US to rob the recipients of the value of their holdings after the fact. I don't think any nation is happy about that. It would also reduce undue influence of a single nation across the world and therefore maybe reduce the attractiveness of terrorist organizations' railing against it.

A currency that can't be debased is a stabilizing factor in international affairs (my take). This also translates to each country's citizens, they can't be robbed by their government...

Financial (or economic) sanctions affect the target country's citizens. I would submit that after the sanctions on Russia, Putin has gained support from the Russian people. Iran has been sanctioned for how many years? Yet Iran's citizens don't find the means to depose of their leadership... Maybe they like the way things are... Sanctions and all.

In my opinion your statement "the world embracing crypto all at once would escalate the financing of combat to unconscionable heights" is unsupported. Bitcoin is available now (has been for a decade), so what keeps bad actors from using it to purchase arms now. The international monetary system is not a gate (to cash out Bitcoin purchases). The Mexican cartels apparently have no problem using the banking system to finance their operations...

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#75

Post by laszlo-kiss »

jeroenhd wrote: post #57
laszlo-kiss wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest 'positive' is that the government in control of the currency is unable to alter the value of it. It is clear that inflation is bad for the citizenry, yet that has been done throughout the ages by every dying civilization. I'm simply looking/hoping for a mechanism to stop it. It would be a 'positive' for you too! Is Bitcoin the ultimate answer? I can't say, but it is a good first step.

Government action around the world has had a definite impact on cryptocurrency pricing, both positive and negative. The idea that a government cannot control cryptocurrencies is ludicrous, because they can simply ban them if they feel the need to. If any real cryptocurrency actually manages to catch on for normal payments, I'd expect the government to force businesses accepting it to only accept transactions from "va…

I thought the Lira lost its value, which is 'inflation'. If it was experiencing deflation then it would become more and more valuable, because it is becoming scarcer.

Inflation is caused by the oversupply of money, it is because the government in charge of that currency is printing it w/o limits. It is a way to pay back loans with cheap money.

Indeed, governments can ban things, but if there is a market for the banned item then there is going to be a supply. Governments don't seem to have the means to block drugs entering prisons, how will they stop ordinary citizens that feel the need to protect themselves from doing what they need to do?

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#76

Post by mcphage »

float4 wrote: post #67
neb_b wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't, but all of this makes it harder to track. Even if the government can track you through all of this, you can setup your private keys in a way that your family can still access your money if the government arrests you.

https://xkcd.com/538

It's funny that this comic is from long enough ago that "Crypto" referred to "Cryptography", and yet it is still relevant :-)

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#77

Post by berberous »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #54
cbdumas wrote: post #12

Because HN readers skew more technologically literate, people here are on average (slightly) more capable of seeing though the techno-babble hype than on other social media sites. It's not that the financial status quo is held in high regard, rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money.

100%. I think I share a pretty common trait on HN that, if someone gives me marketing speak, I just want to ask "OK, but what does it do ?" There are a lot of promises of the crypto community that are just fundamentally wrong , and when these issues are pointed out, you get lots of non-answers in the form of "OK Boomer". 2 simple examples: 1. Proof-of-work has inherent , fundamental , no-way-to-work-around-it issues…

What "government financial controls" are you referring to?

Not everything is black and white. While the government can enact laws, and enforce those with courts and guns, on a practical level it is easier, for example, to flee a hostile country with Bitcoin than with a checking account held at a local bank.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#78

Post by zamalek »

thurn wrote: post #47
laszlo-kiss wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest 'positive' is that the government in control of the currency is unable to alter the value of it. It is clear that inflation is bad for the citizenry, yet that has been done throughout the ages by every dying civilization. I'm simply looking/hoping for a mechanism to stop it. It would be a 'positive' for you too! Is Bitcoin the ultimate answer? I can't say, but it is a good first step.

Inflation in the form of government spending on infrastructure or wealth transfers to poorer citizens is not 'clearly' bad, there's significant academic debate on the subject. Disincentivizing cash-hoarding drives economic growth, and has done so for the past 50 years.

> Disincentivizing cash-hoarding

And the reason why this is important is because an asset that is not liquid has no utility as a currency. Put another way, if my $1 today would be worth $1.20 tomorrow, it would be in my best interest to "HODL" on to it instead of using it.

This would be a fantastic scenario for me as an individual, in the short term. Eventually, though, I'd have to buy some bread; the problem is that the baker decided to HODL their currency instead of buying flour (because that would be in their own best interest). Everyone would be sitting on heaps of unusable wealth.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#79

Post by weare138 »

przeor wrote: post #27
cbdumas wrote: post #12

Because HN readers skew more technologically literate, people here are on average (slightly) more capable of seeing though the techno-babble hype than on other social media sites. It's not that the financial status quo is held in high regard, rather that HN readers see crypto's empty promises to fix existing issues for what they are: bullshit designed to lure in ever more dumb money.

similar empty promises were made in dot com era. Does it mean dot com period of 1995-2001 was wasted and meaningless?

If you invested, yes. Plus this assumes technology wouldn't have advanced regardless and ignores the massive financial pullback in the tech industry that hampered progress for years after the crash.

Re: Ask HN: Why do negative crypto articles dominate on HN?

#80

Post by netsharc »

If I can guess, I'm guessing you're operating backwards. You like crypto, you want it to "win", (you've probably put money in it, and who puts money on things they're not convinced in?), so when you see article and people against crypto, you see them as having hidden motives and are just spreading propaganda.

Meanwhile whether you're conscious of it or not, here you are, having put your money on crypto, trying to preach to people that "It's the future!". Why? Of course you're cheerleading it, because you want your investments to go up. And they way that can happen is when more people are converted and buy it. Maybe there are layers of justifications between "My motivation is A, therefore B", but I think at the end of it, that's it.

> It would be interesting to know why the status quo financial system is held in such a high regard? Especially in light of the continual debasement of the dollar since it was decoupled from gold.

And here I think you've drunk the Kool-Aid. Where did you learn that this is bad? Probably from pro-crypto websites. Do you think they have a neutral view of it, or do you think they'd be selling you a version of why the past was bad, and a version of the way things should be, where the makers of these sites (people who are invested in crypto and want to profit) do profit? I'd wager what they're trying to peddle is bullshit, but I'm not an expert in this area. Yeah, the current financial system is also a bit of of a Ponzi scheme of "Trust me I'm good for it, you'll get your money in the future", but I don't think crypto will prevent that.

> I for one, take this perceived negative bias as a confirmation that Bitcoin is a genuine threat to the existing financial system. When Bill Gates (and other powerful people) bad mouth Bitcoin I smell a rat.

And when Elon Musk and Jack Dorsey tout crypto I smell bullshit. Perhaps you treat these two as sincere heroes wanting the best for mankind, that'd be the same way I see Bill Gates, he probably offered his opinion to the best of his knowledge.

> Does anyone else think this way? Am I just a dumb ass? :)

Well... it seems very easy to lead people astray, in a con, the mark does a lot of his fooling himself.

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