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Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

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Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#71

Post by Oras »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #15

Google for Jobs. It's the job board killer. I've been operating niche job boards for a decade, starting with angularjobs.com (for Angular developers). Before this, the job ad aggregators (Indeed, Zip recruiter, Talent, Talroo, and LinkedIn) were probably* the best bet. IMO, Google expects a return to business websites posting their jobs on their own domain[1]. This way, they can take all the job-ad $$$, too. *99.99%…

You had downvotes? Why?

Google are doing pretty good things when it comes to jobs to improve candidates' experience. Of course at the end all these features are to increase their ads revenue, but isn't that the goal for any business?

Here are some quick points about Google for jobs:

1. You can view jobs from different sources at one place.

2. Google is highlighting the benefits (US Only right now).

3. Google is *claiming* to filter out the bad job descriptions. I said claiming because I can still see some bad ones.

4. Directly apply feature. They will highlight the website where you can actually apply directly instead of being redirected.

5. Removing expired jobs based on validation date so candidates do not see expired jobs.

I wrote a blog post about the new Google for jobs algorithm back in October:

https://jobdescription.ai/blog/google-for-jobs-new-algorithm...

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#72

Post by BrianOnHN »

ineptech wrote: post #62
BrianOnHN wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea. Being in the job board business for a decade, here's what I think would be the challenges: 1. Organizational structure mismatch: The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions. Outside of startups, job postings may be drafted by a manager, but a committee, legal, and/or HR has the final say on what's in the posting. An assistant or VA is often the POC when the job posting is…

4. As a hiring manager, I'd need different "profiles" for each team (one team mobs 24/7, another almost never mobs, etc) 5. What I would want as a candidate (a blunt and specific "warts and all" description of the team I'm joining) is not what employers would provide (vague, HR-y generalities like "we use cutting-edge technology" and "we prioritize work-life balance"). This was what turned me off from KeyValues. But…

Good additions. I'd like to add that these are all challenges that will be faced by all competitors of the existing model.

Personally, that's what lead me to focussing on what might be the most innovative direction I can fathom instead of the incremental direction (aka "this for that" innovation). If I didn't recognize that all of the challengers would face this same uphill battle, then I myself would've built "OKCupid for jobs" by now. It would 10X the pure-spam nature of the current market if the execution was done well, but current players are too big. To conclude, you have to outthink them and create something that can't be reproduced with effectively unlimited budget.

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#73

Post by altdataseller »

memling wrote: post #53
inasmuch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, please. I'd also like to see cover letters replaced by something more useful for both parties, like a small set of direct questions to answer. When an applicant applies for a job, she's left to make her best guess as to what information the company might find useful, and has to find a way to cram that into an awkward, stiff, rather bullshitty epistolary format. The hirer is then left to try to parse and interpre…

> I'd also like to see cover letters replaced by something more useful for both parties, like a small set of direct questions to answer. This "small set of direct questions," in my opinion, is implicit in the job description/duties and desired qualifications. Employers lately have had challenges in job definition, of course (they seem interested in advertising for the company rather than a job, and the job descriptio…

What is the response rate to those postal mails you send? And who do you address them to (do you find the name of the recruiter or just address it to the general company)

That’s a very interesting tactic.

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#74

Post by BrianOnHN »

rglullis wrote: post #66
BrianOnHN wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea. Being in the job board business for a decade, here's what I think would be the challenges: 1. Organizational structure mismatch: The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions. Outside of startups, job postings may be drafted by a manager, but a committee, legal, and/or HR has the final say on what's in the posting. An assistant or VA is often the POC when the job posting is…

> The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions. The questions should be answered by all the devs in the hiring team. You don't care about the compatibility between HR and employee, you care about compatibility between your peers and your direct boss. > I can't think of any "normal" person I know that looks for jobs without some negative catalyst pushing them into it. You can also solve…

I think you might be on to something.

What might a B2B employer-only network look like?

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#75

Post by BrianOnHN »

Oras wrote: post #71
BrianOnHN wrote: post #15

Google for Jobs. It's the job board killer. I've been operating niche job boards for a decade, starting with angularjobs.com (for Angular developers). Before this, the job ad aggregators (Indeed, Zip recruiter, Talent, Talroo, and LinkedIn) were probably* the best bet. IMO, Google expects a return to business websites posting their jobs on their own domain[1]. This way, they can take all the job-ad $$$, too. *99.99%…

You had downvotes? Why? Google are doing pretty good things when it comes to jobs to improve candidates' experience. Of course at the end all these features are to increase their ads revenue, but isn't that the goal for any business? Here are some quick points about Google for jobs: 1. You can view jobs from different sources at one place. 2. Google is highlighting the benefits (US Only right now). 3. Google is *clai…

> You had downvotes? Why?

OP has 1 point. Had 0.

Maybe people read the OP as anti-G?

That said, I agree with your sentiment. It's a natural evolution of the market at this point. And it should've happened years ago. The other players aren't as good at limiting the spam because it's a cash-cow. If Google could stop the spam, then they should offer ads now. It would be good for workers. And companies will undoubtedly spend more money with Google than they do at the much less reputable alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#76

Post by feoren »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #28
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #18

Somebody please make OkCupid for Jobs. Both employers and applicants fill out questions that the community curates (so they can be job-specific, industry-specific, etc). Both employers and employees get matches via algorithm rather than receiving 100 random resumes or 100 random job suggestions that have nothing to do with you. Existing sites do this, but very poorly, because they only try to detect information out o…

Great idea. Being in the job board business for a decade, here's what I think would be the challenges: 1. Organizational structure mismatch: The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions. Outside of startups, job postings may be drafted by a manager, but a committee, legal, and/or HR has the final say on what's in the posting. An assistant or VA is often the POC when the job posting is…

> The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions.

That is a feature, not a bug: it means that candidates know that jobs they see posted on that site have actually been at least looked at by the actual team you'll work with. Filtering out jobs offers that are just HR buzzword soup would be exactly its competitive advantage over Indeed and LinkedIn job-spam.

> hoping that they can't reverse-engineer the solution before you catch up

Don't worry; they can't. Kodak couldn't even pivot to digital and they invented digital photography! Huge companies have awful, terrible, very bad, no-good software, and leadership that has no interest in ever adapting to anything. Besides, the niche is different anyway.

> "why would I feel motivated to complete a long profile when I can just spam my pre-made resume, since it will be required at some point in the future anyway."

Because you're catering to applicants who are picky about what job they're looking for. I don't just want any job -- the list of jobs I'm qualified to do is vastly, vastly larger than the list of jobs I'd ever want to do.

You're not trying to replace Indeed: you're trying to replace recruiters.

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#77

Post by BrianOnHN »

feoren wrote: post #76
BrianOnHN wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea. Being in the job board business for a decade, here's what I think would be the challenges: 1. Organizational structure mismatch: The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions. Outside of startups, job postings may be drafted by a manager, but a committee, legal, and/or HR has the final say on what's in the posting. An assistant or VA is often the POC when the job posting is…

> The people posting the jobs don't know the answers to the required questions. That is a feature, not a bug: it means that candidates know that jobs they see posted on that site have actually been at least looked at by the actual team you'll work with. Filtering out jobs offers that are just HR buzzword soup would be exactly its competitive advantage over Indeed and LinkedIn job-spam. > hoping that they can't revers…

100

> hoping that they can't reverse-engineer the solution before you catch up

>> Don't worry; they can't. Kodak couldn't even pivot to digital and they invented digital photography! Huge companies...

Yes, b/c Kodak taught us that, better put: hoping that they can't acquire a better connected imitator before you catch-up.

> You're not trying to replace Indeed: you're trying to replace recruiters.

This is spot-on.

My vision is like "talent agents for the rest of us." There are additional challenges that I won't mention because their knowledge is a competitive advantage at this point. But yeah, that's what's up.

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#78

Post by afandian »

I contacted StackOverflow to see if we could post a job. The sales rep said that they only took subscription accounts, not one-off postings. They were open and helpful, but as I only had one job to post, they said they couldn't help us. It was disappointing, as it's the kind of place I'd like our candidates to find us!

If you build the replacement, please accommodate places that don't have constant churn!

Re: Ask HN: Replacement for Stack Overflow jobs section?

#79

Post by randomsilence »

hurflmurfl wrote: post #2

For people like me, who have not heard about this: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/415293/sunsetting-j... > Jobs and Developer Story will no longer be supported as of April 1, 2022.

What's their reason for shutting it down? The older submissions mention that they want to focus on managing company images. Why would they shut down before establishing the new income stream? What happens if it doesn't work out? Will they shut down completely in a year or two?

Besides, if they are not operating at a loss, why not keep the job board running and improve it until it is the market leader? They know what people search. Who is better positioned to bring programmers and companies together? What do I miss that makes it impossible for them to continue?

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