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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#71
Some of it is a matter of what type of work motivates you and how your current work matches up.

My coworkers tend to put in 10 hour days in the fall and winter during our busy season, in which we are bombarded with smaller tasks and bug fixes. They thrive on knocking out a large number of small things quickly.

But they then do “almost nothing” the other half of the year, when we should be working on large new initiates and better tooling.

I’m the opposite - give me a list of small soul crushing manual tasks, and I’ll procrastinate like crazy. But give me some vague user stories and a big new project with the freedom to be creative, and I’ll be pulling nights and weekends happily.

One question I think you’re asking without asking it is, “is this ok?”

And that depends on two things.

One, are YOU happy with this? Is your job just a means to an end, or do you want to have a bigger impact, be more productive, and enjoy your work?

If the latter, then you’re likely not in a position that properly challenges you or meshes with your motivations.

If the former, then the next question to ask is, “am I providing my employer with value?”

Are you doing work that would be hard to find others that could do it? Do you bring any unique skills or knowledge? Are you getting enough done that it helps the organization achieve goals, get new customers, or keep existing ones happy?

If so, great, you’re adding value and you aren’t draining the organization.

If not, then you might want to consider what and how you can improve.

And frankly every engineer and developer should be at least vaguely aware of what value they provide, both to make a case for yourself if needed, but also to make sure you’re satisfied in your current role and not just a butt in a seat.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#72

> Are most of us secretly lying about how much we are working? How much are the heirs collecting dividend checks from the wealth I create working? Should I crawl at the boots of some St. Grottlesex graduate, telling them I could have worked harder, trying to gain some Stakhanovite hero of labor award from them? If you have time to spare, which apparently you do, study CS so that you can be an L5, L6, L7 etc. at some…

If only you could study and get L5/L6/L7 roles in faang :)

At least theoretically loops at these levels try to gauge what you've seen in your career and how you have grown from it, possibly try and project to what you would do in the current situation. I am sure there are folks who game this by reading blogs and leetcoding away, but there is a lot of survivor bias in those statements. Most of the time, folks have their bullshit radars up high for higher level interviews and this is hard. I wish I had some kinda stats on how hard though :/

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#73
I'm literally about to get fired from Google for this, possibly today (HR is calling wondering where I am). Dumb thing is, I've been working like crazy on my 20% project. I just can't stand the other one, got an NI on my first (and presumably last) review cycle so pretty much killed any chance of a transfer.

I've never outright lied, though certainly hemmed and hawed. And occasionally blatantly "I haven't done anything this week". And yeah, certainly work-from-home makes it easier to shut down and ignore everything. Which is great, except you feel like crap afterwards.

But like I said, it depends on the project. Next job I take, money is going to be less of a consideration. Just want to work on something interesting. And there's a reasonable likelihood that I fall into the category of "needs professional help" (I also flunked out of school twice and took six years to graduate, despite getting five 5's on AP tests and only needing two years' worth of credits), but I've tried a few times without much success.

And, no I don't think it's super-common. At least not to this level. Most of my coworkers seem to genuinely work pretty hard. Though some don't.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#75
post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

Large companies have a tendency to throw up all sorts of impediments to actually getting shit done.

Simple tasks can take 3 weeks because there are 7-9 dependencies throwing sand in the gears.

This not only provides plenty of cover for not getting stuff done it also saps the motivation to get it done quickly. Like, if X team sits on your request for a week that prevents Y feature from getting out are you really gonna be motivated to push it to production the second it's unblocked? Or could it wait another couple days?

Contrast that with a small startup where you barely need sign off to do anything - it's much easier to get into that pleasant loop of code -> deploy -> see customers use it -> dopamine hit -> motivation to code some more.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#76
Ahh, I remember now in my previous company. The guy didnt know how to code, so always take 1-2 lines of css fix (and even then it was bad). Went out every lunch for 3 hrs, back to office, then watch youtube till 5pm then go home.

That company is underwater now.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#78

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

To be fair, I've done both. By now I can roughly estimate that a task will take me one hour. If I dedicate myself to it right now, it will actually take me 2-3 hours. I can also sort of carry it around for a couple of days, and then implement it in one hour.

This says two things about me: I usually underestimate the design details when estimating time, and the design takes me roughly the same time anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#79

you're not alone. I probably work the same amount as you. I ship stuff the org feels customers love, I get promotions, and get paid well. I could grind so much more but I like to spend my day in other ways. I like to read the news in the morning, clock out at 5 etc. We have the ability to "work" this little and still be valuable because writing code has a very high barrier to entry. That 5-10 hrs of work took years o…

A man approached a street artist making amazing paintings and asked for one. About 2 minutes later, the artwork completed, and the artist asked for the fee. The man balked at the price. "What!? This only took a couple of minutes!" "No," replied the artist, "this took me my whole life."
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