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Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

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Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#71

Post by takinola »

lvspiff wrote: post #52
jblake wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked with a lawyer before. How do I pick one? Should I pick one in my state - Nevada? Should I post the case details here? I guess I was hoping someone on HN had a connection or is an IP lawyer themself, as I have no idea how to pick a lawyer and no idea how much this could cost.

Go here and get a referral: https://nvbar.org/for-the-public/find-a-lawyer/lrs/ You will likely schedule a time to sit down and discuss the letter and they might give you some indications of how to proceed. At that point if you want to continue forward a "retainer" fee will be collected. It could be thousands. From there good luck!

You can also see a lawyer you want to reach out to has been reviewed by previous clients

https://www.avvo.com/

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#72

Post by nceqs3 »

kkielhofner wrote: post #47
jblake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case details does not detail an asking amount. I could post the case details here if people think that's a good idea. I suppose it's public information anyway.

DO NOT do this. You probably also should have used a throwaway account and provided a lot less detail on the scenario. If your adversary finds this post (they likely will) your position and options are at a significant disadvantage.

That's why I asked for the # because they are suing a number of other companies over the same patent.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#73

Post by dmabram »

duxup wrote: post #64
dmabram wrote: post #33

I've been through similar situations. The "find a lawyer" comments are less than helpful, since you probably don't know where to begin and most lawyers will happily take your money without necessarily having an expedient path to resolution for a small one-person company. So here's what you do: Write to each of your competitors, explain the situation and ask for a referral to their lawyers. You'd be surprised how many…

I understand how 'find a lawyer' is less than helpful but isn't your advice just 'find a lawyer ... that your competitors suggest'. Competitors who by default do not have your best interests in mind. Is there any real difference / likelihood of a good outcome there? Ultimately I see little difference in the potential of "most lawyers will happily take your money without necessarily having an expedient path to resolut…

Probably because you haven't dealt with many lawyers :-). Yes, there's a huge difference. The advice is geared towards finding a lawyer who can achieve an optimal outcome at lowest cost. Any competent IP attorney can accept the case. The difference in cost is multiple orders of magnitude.

At worst some of your competitors will ignore your request. But like I said, I have been through similar situations. Without delving into too many details, I had competitors who had no reason to help go so far beyond just a referral that years later I am still grateful. Once you've been burned by one of these trolls, you have a bit of a bond with other victims I guess.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#74

Post by HiroProtagonist »

Andrew_Russell wrote: post #44

I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…

This is very cool and generous of you Andrew.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#75

Post by laurent123456 »

saxonww wrote: post #69
whimsicalism wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think society today is insufficiently aggressive and vengeful. Sure, the society with one of the largest per capita prison populations in the world is insufficiently vengeful.

When you're directing vengeance at the wrong problems, then yes.

Yes, and there's no reason to think that if society was more aggressive and vengeful, vengeance would be directed towards anybody but the most vulnerable. Patent trolls would do just fine in that kind of world.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#76

Post by stinos »

fallingknife wrote: post #43
stinos wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good way to find a lawyer is to talk to good lawyers you have worked with in the past. I.e. none for me. Is it that common to have worked with lawyers then? I honestly wouldn't know how to find a good lawyer. I don't even think I know anyone in person who ever needed a lawyer (not sure - it's not something which comes up often in conversations).

It's pretty common for someone doing business in the US. Do you have any friends from school who are lawyers? That could be a good start. Or someone else you know who has been involved in litigation. A Google search for IP lawyers in your area couldn't hurt either. You can usually get a little bit of free advice over the phone too.

Maybe the thing is I'm not in the US but in Western Europe. I'm not sure if it's representative but from seeing US movies/series (in so far those are representative), reading other comments here etc I do get the impression there's more of a 'lawyer up' culture in the US than here. Plus I'm perhaps also in the 'wrong' bubble. I.e. most people I know who own a business are simple one-man companies / contract workers, myself included and we don't have to deal with legal stuff ever. Which just makes me realize: I do have an accountant and he would obviously know laywers.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#77

Post by kkielhofner »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #70
kkielhofner wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally appreciate the altruism of this advice but there's a huge risk in that the competitors likely won't set aside the spirit of competition, whatever they've spent/done to deal with this, etc to help out a competitor. I, personally, would not risk this approach.

What's the risk here? That they would purposefully send you to a malicious lawyer? That seems kind of unlikely. Especially if the patent troll has also sued them

The risk, as I see it, is multi-fold:

- There's definitely no privilege with a competitor. The only people you should provide ANY detail or discussion on any of this are your attorneys. Full stop. That includes this post and discussion.

- You signal to your competitors the very weak and vulnerable position you're in. Many will be happy to dance on your grave...

- Business can be absolutely ruthless. I wouldn't put it past some Machiavellian type competitor to tip off the troll to let the troll take you out for them (or who knows what).

Business doesn't have to go full "Art of War" but to many people that's exactly what it is.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#78

Post by eloff »

kkielhofner wrote: post #61
dmabram wrote: post #33

I've been through similar situations. The "find a lawyer" comments are less than helpful, since you probably don't know where to begin and most lawyers will happily take your money without necessarily having an expedient path to resolution for a small one-person company. So here's what you do: Write to each of your competitors, explain the situation and ask for a referral to their lawyers. You'd be surprised how many…

I generally appreciate the altruism of this advice but there's a huge risk in that the competitors likely won't set aside the spirit of competition, whatever they've spent/done to deal with this, etc to help out a competitor. I, personally, would not risk this approach.

Honestly if a competitor came to me for help with a patent troll who'd previously targeted me, I'd bend over backwards to assist. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#79

Post by cryptica »

>> I'm a one person company and have no idea what to do.

Re-launch your company as a blockchain DAO then leave the country. What kind of retarded legal system facilitates this BS? Why would anyone want to live in such place?

Anyone who has any self-respect and has had to work hard for their money would never consider taking any of this crap.

Or if you really like your country (I.e. the land and its people), you can shut down your business and join the communist revolution. With the current anti-competitive climate, it's probably only a few years away. Just wait for Gen-Z to receive a decade or so of persistent crony-capitalist beatings and you'll be able to find enough disgruntled comrades to help you fix your situation.

Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?

#80

Post by robocat »

belter wrote: post #60

Patent trolls are in my top 3 list of most despised entities. Its the whole hypocrisy of their way of living, cobbled together with their parasitic nature. Some years ago, worked for a US based startup that went public. When they got to a valuation of around 1 billion, they got hit by a patent troll. Completely bogus claim, but at the time the CEO just decided to settle and avoid the risks and financial stress of pro…

Presumably patent trolls often hit when they have the most leverage and the company has the least time and the most money e.g. during due diligence or just before IPO?
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