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Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#71

Post by giantg2 »

J-dawg wrote: post #48

There are a lot of ways to interpret this question, as shown in by the variety of responses in this thread. But we could rephrase it to "why aren't top speeds limited to the maximum speed limit?". It's got me thinking about the creeping culture of safetyism, especially against the current backdrop of Covid-related restrictions. In some ways it makes no sense that cars are not restricted to a sensible top speed. Eithe…

Don't some of the higher powered cars in Japan have a GPS system that won't allow them to exceed certain street limits?

Places that have some roads with unrestricted speed probably wouldn't be a candidate for non-GPS blanket restrictions (Germany has the autobahn, Montana has/had some roads posted as 'reasonable speed').

There is also the argument against both types of restrictions that some situations can warrant excess speeds. If you are speeding to a hospital because your neighbor has potentially life threatening injuries from being run over by a tractor, most states have a clause that allows you to break the laws to avoid greater harm in situations like this.

The best answer I know of so far is to increase driver test requirements in the US. Many European countries have more stringent testing with lower fatalities per million miles, even when comparing US interstates to the German autobahn. The number of drivers I witness who make bad decisions or don't know the law is quite high.

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#73

Post by emteycz »

tingol wrote: post #66
emteycz wrote: post #26

Is it? I can legally drive at any speed on most highways around me, and yes I do drive 260 km/h daily (fifth year without any accident btw).

If you had any you wouldn't be here to post about it.

Hmm... I've seen a few high-speed accidents less than 15 minutes after it happened. People were mostly standing on their own legs, except for that one car that hit a tree at high speed even though it was pretty far from the highway (that was ugly). High speed accidents can be and very often are fatal, but it's not as absolute as you're saying.

It's all about the car - don't drive 260 in an Octavia, not even a Passat, much less a second-hand one. Recent Mercedes E-class with all the additional safety equipment can handle high speed crashes well, and the automated systems can do a lot for prevention as well as saving the situation (but there aren't many situations that need saving with the prevention systems).

BTW going 260 in a Mercedes feels about as controlled and smooth as going 70 with less expensive cars. It really is something totally different, and you have to feel it to truly understand it.

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#74

Post by pytonslange »

From May 2022 all new cars (and buses etc) sold in EU will be fitted with "Intelligent speed assistance (ISA)" systems. ISA meaning sign recognition or other means of detecting the legal speed limit, that limits engine power when the limit is exceeded [1, 2].

The European Transport Safety Council (ETSC), the body which supports the introduction of ISAs, says the limiters would reduce collisions by 30%, and save around 25,000 lives within 15 years.

I think this is a really brave move by the EU, and a great example of use of technology to save human lives. I wonder if these kinds of "unpopular" legislations are rarely be made by local governments filled with politicians up for re-election every four years as it spells doom for chances re-election.

1. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20190410IP...

2. https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/mandatory-spe...

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#75

Post by pytonslange »

morsch wrote: post #47
Goz3rr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you imagine this working for someone who drives across Europe frequently, including sections of unrestricted Autobahn? Or someone who takes their street legal car onto (private) tracks from time to time?

Limit it to 130 km/h, which is appropriate for almost all or Europe[1]. If you're e.g. in Germany or Poland, you can have it unlocked, but the car stops being road legal anywhere else. Ideally, they'd just harmonize the speed limit in the EU; a majority in Germany approves of introducing a general speed limit on motorways anyways. But that'd hurt the bottom line of car manufacturers and we can't have that. Also, GPS-…

All new cars sold from May 2022 in the EU will be fited with intelligent speed assistance systems (sign recognition etc) with speed limiters.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20190410IP...

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#76

Post by morsch »

pytonslange wrote: post #75
morsch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limit it to 130 km/h, which is appropriate for almost all or Europe[1]. If you're e.g. in Germany or Poland, you can have it unlocked, but the car stops being road legal anywhere else. Ideally, they'd just harmonize the speed limit in the EU; a majority in Germany approves of introducing a general speed limit on motorways anyways. But that'd hurt the bottom line of car manufacturers and we can't have that. Also, GPS-…

All new cars sold from May 2022 in the EU will be fited with intelligent speed assistance systems (sign recognition etc) with speed limiters. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20190410IP...

Interesting, thank you. Just a feedback mechanism, not a limiter, though. And I imagine you'll be able to turn it off...

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#77

Post by twelve40 »

Goz3rr wrote: post #29
hhmmmsms wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, street-legal automobiles could simply be governed with a top speed of the fastest legal speed limit in a given region.

How do you imagine this working for someone who drives across Europe frequently, including sections of unrestricted Autobahn? Or someone who takes their street legal car onto (private) tracks from time to time?

wait, so now all cars in the world have to optimize for a fraction of roads in Germany? or having a universal ability for everyone to take their Chrysler Pacifica or Chevy Equinox to a private race track? This explanation makes zero sense, tons (if not most) of cars that have 120-140 mph on the dashboard (such as the two above) will never go anywhere near Germany or a private race track. I'd rather go for the "acceleration" explanation elsewhere here - but what do I know.

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#78

Post by Throwaway1771 »

speedgoose wrote: post #22

To sell them to people who want to go fast or want to have the possibility to go fast, but it also used to be for technical reasons. Most cars have a gaz engine and the efficiency of a gaz engine is not linear. To simplify, an engine often has its best efficiency around 2000rpm and can rotate as fast as 6500rpm but it will then waste a lot of energy, mostly in heat. You want the engine to operate at its best efficien…

Russian?

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#79

Post by apatil »

eitland wrote: post #65
apatil wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could have speed governors with an opt-out button, where use of the opt-out button gets logged and has to be justified.

This can be a good idea in certain applications, but the idea of applying it generally comes off as outright scary to me. What history, politics and leadership classes at school (as well as following the news for a couple of decades afterwards) has told me is that such tools should be used to protect ordinary citizens against abuse of power, not to simplify the lives of those in power. Otherwise we should just as wel…

I didn't have cases like your example in mind. If you couldn't know that the speed limit would decrease soon, eg you had no idea the speed limit was going to change until you were nearly level with the sign, then presumably the law should require you to slow down promptly but safely. The opt-out button shouldn't be required in that case.

The opt-out button would be for rare situations where you actually need to exceed the speed limit for reasons of health or safety.

I don't want information getting into the hands of powerful people without a very good reason, but I think the safety benefits of universal speed limit compliance with exceptions for health and safety would constitute a very good reason.

In terms of privacy, this idea seems more or less equivalent to traffic cameras that capture images of license plates when drivers fail to comply with traffic signals.

Re: Ask HN: Why do they make cars go so fast if it’s illegal?

#80

Post by ok-repl »

falcolas wrote: post #57
ok-repl wrote: post #55

I think lot of people here are going to disagree with me but seems to me there's a case for putting limiters on cars. Drivers sometimes hit other vehicles. Airbags go a long way here. Sadly, drivers will often hit less fortunate road users such as pedestrians and cyclists. We already know that pedestrians hit at 30 km/h vs. 50 km/h stand a much better chance to survive. Sadly, cities are rarely designed for 30, and u…

While this is theoretically a good idea, in practice there's a lot of hard questions without good answers. Where does a city begin? End? Should we cover the suburbs with the geofence? What about the beltways or highways that go through the city? In big cities, GPS is spotty or completely unavailable, what do we do there? What about city streets which pass under/over highways? As I've pointed out in other replies, the…

I don't know where you live but city limits are very clearly defined in many places. Here for example, there are clear designations (that are reflected in a default speed limit too).

I don't quite know what your (American?) suburbs look like, but in theory I don't see why not in this instance.

And if you're concerned about, idk, people not being able to get to the hospital on time or what have you, make them opt-out on every single ignition. Most people will probably not be bothered to opt-out every single time.

As for the technical points regarding GPS, lots of cars already read speed signs and come with various computer vision based safety features.

Again, ebikes and escooters are already speed limited and geofenced. It's not perfect, but why aren't we so concerned about ebikes being slow and not being able to keep up with cars and subsequently be hit by them?

Lastly - it doesn't have to come into full effect if you're at 120km/h. You can be smart about it, like not slowing you down but not letting you accelerate, easing you into the speed limit etc.

There's a perception that cars are a fact of life and it's OK for them to be traveling at speed in cities, whereas the reality is that in most urban areas we simply cannot afford to keep this up any longer.

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