Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#71

Post by mikeg8 » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

setr wrote: post #66

ljm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reasonable option there is the third one, and the company itself suffers the backlash for running on such a high bus factor. Vacation is for vacation, not work. If you're asked to stay on call then you better be paid for it. After all, you're not one of the founders, you're an employee. If a business can't survive with a week or two of planning or delegation then it has other problems. Eating vacation is jus…

However, you're not a low-level resource; especially in a 6-man company. Being given responsibility for your team, you are responsible for it -- good or bad. It's your duty to ensure your team is capable of limited autonomy (if they were believed to be capable of full autonomy, your role as manager is redundant, and the hierarchy shouldn't have been created in the first place) If you haven't yet created the necessary…

Again, you continue to describe the role of a FOUNDER, not an employee.

Your use of words like “blow up” and “duty” need some serious reflection. One of the biggest failures of or modern corporate culture is the mindset that we should live to work instead of work to live. A vacation requires disconnect to be truly valuable, if your brain is still in work mode, you may as well have stayed in the office.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#72

Post by mharroun » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

I see it this way:

As a manager you are responsible for your department those responsibilities dont magically poof away because your on vacation. If you have successfully set up your team/department in a way that you can "go dark" for your time off (e.g. no need of your knowledge, and proper key teammates can step in for you to interface with other teams/departments) then great, otherwise you should expect backlash if something goes wrong.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#73

Post by somerandomqaguy » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

Not unusual but a little interesting that your boss is explicitly asking that you be available during holiday. And I don't think it's unreasonable for them to ask.

If I were you, I would see if you can work something out with your boss that's agreeable to both of you. Maybe it's fine just to glance at the emails for 5 or 10 minutes in the whenever time window is convenient, with no expectation of action until you actually are back to work. If that's no good enough (i.e. they want you explicitly looking at your emails for a set window) then try to see if there's some other form of acceptable recompense in exchange for you to be working on holiday, for example extra pay to compensate for the fact that your giving up some vacation time to do work.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#74

Post by lukey_q » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

Totally unacceptable ask in my opinion, for reasons many people have touched on. I would also add that even from the company's point of view, it's a bad deal to ask you to work. The peace of mind you get from taking an unplugged vacation, and also from knowing that your company wants you to fully enjoy that vacation, is going to make you happier and more productive when you return to work. It's going to make you trust your company and think that they have your back as a human being. In the end this is going to be worth infinitely more than the two or three emails you would be expected to answer that week.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#75

Post by chooseaname » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #8

3 hours per week is not a big deal. The higher you go the more you should expect to live the job. If that’s a tough pill then don’t become a manager. But really you only have 2 guys. That’s piss in a pond. Surely somebody can account for your two people for a short time. Where I work managers have 40 people.

I'm sorry that you've been trained to think this way by current corporate culture, but this is not okay and it has nothing to do with choosing to swallow the manager pill or not or whatever that was supposed to mean.

People should be allowed to have a vacation. Full stop. No conditions.

It is a strength to want W/L separation, not a weakness.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#76

Post by dep_b » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

I've seen business owners of startups picking specific days to communicate like every Wednesday during a holiday. If you're worried about checking your mail all of the time you just as well could've kept working.

It's your decision ultimately but if it was a nice company otherwise and I could check in only once per week or in case of a "the house is on fire" emergency I probably would accept it.

Also make sure the days they ask you to check in are not counted as days off.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#77

Post by GreenJelloShot » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

enumjorge wrote: post #49

bluedevil2k wrote: post #7

If the company is only 6 people I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to check email. Small companies need to project as bigger than they are to potential clients and answering your emails helps that illusion. Just take 20 minutes and do it after lunch.

It is unreasonable. It’s just been normalized in certain settings. I’ve been in teams like that, and having to check in while on vacation makes it hard to take your mind off of work. Its one thing if my manager asks for my cell phone in case there’s a true emergency. But having me check my email every weekday? No. Boundaries are healthy. I’m never again working in an environment like that if I can help it unless the…

People "vacation" in radically different ways.

For some people, a vacation is just spending all week at home playing video games. Others will just sped time at a B&B or visit family. For them, checking email is not a big deal.

Other people are way more active and want to go camping, surfing or something else that gets them away from their phone/laptop. For these people, checking email is unreasonable because it interferes with their plans.

The two types of people cannot understand the other side. One of them thinks "Why can't you spare a little time in between checking Facebook and Twitter to check your email?" The other side thinks "Who wastes a perfectly good vacation by spending any time on Facebook and/or Twitter?"

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#78

Post by chooseaname » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

People are saying this is normal. Normal doesn't make it right.

I would check what the local laws for you are regarding this, but I would personally say "no". Work with your team to make sure they know exactly what they need to work on and clear the path of anything that may get in their way, then go enjoy your vacation.

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#79

Post by babycake » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

If you are so critical to the company's operations, then can you deduct 3 hrs every week from the PTO you are taking? ie, if you are taking off 40 hours, then only log 37 hours PTO taken, because you're expected to work 3 hrs a week? Not ideal, but at least you will preserve your hard-earned PTO?

Re: Ask HN: My boss ask I take my emails while on vacation

#80

Post by georgeecollins » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

Here is my suggestion, given the size of the company and your role. Ask your boss to try and answer your work emails while you are on vacation, or send a reply saying you will get back to it when you are done with vacation. If he encounters something he isn't sure about, he can email you. That way you will only be bothered about things that really require your attention.

Offer to do the same thing for him when he is on vacation. This is a better strategy for co-workers, but since you are a small company you can see what your boss says. At the size you are at it is important that you offer to reciprocate what you are asking for, to show that you want to be treated fairly and appropriately.