Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 84 posts

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#71

Post by dorchadas »

nopinsight wrote: post #8
naskwo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your insights. I think the tax and tourist income from AirBnB is less than what this form of tourism is costing the city, if measuring correctly. There were several studies published about this recently.

I am curious. What are the costs you have in mind? How are they different from tourists who stay in cheaper hotels?

Ask Barcelona. They're seeing issues with it driving up rental prices, and pushing the actual locals out of the city as landlords realize they can make more money using their properties for AirBnB, with little-to-no regulation, than they can leasing long-term. It also makes others who live in complexes dominated by AirBnB want to move, as tourists really don't care about how they behave and often come in at all hours of the night drunk and loud, and changes the neighborhod itself as businesses change to cater to the new tourists in the area as opposed to locals.

Hotels are specific buildings that aren't part of the real estate market that is let to ordinary locals, whereas AirBnB is. Plus, hotels are generally concentrated in specific areas of the city, and so don't ruin local neighborhoods.

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#72

Post by wolco »

swiley wrote: post #12
fullshark wrote: post #10

Seems like the market exists for what they offer. Even if this wipes out airbnb in the short term another company will serve the need in the long term, baring new laws. Basically you'd need to see hospitality industry lobbyists get some new laws passed murdering them as part of some sort of relief package.

I’m not a huge Airbnb fan but the hospitality lobbies are pretty crappy too. In the town I’m from they managed to make sleeping in your car a pretty serious crime.

Where do you live?

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#73

Post by wolco »

Raed667 wrote: post #4

I live in touristy city, and I wish nothing more than to see Airbnb crash and die. Finding rent here is mission impossible, most landlords will happily rent to you for a contract that ends at the start of the summer, then you have to figure out where to live for 3 months. Housing prices are impossibly expensive compared to local salaries, and landlords would rather keep a place empty for an occasional airbnb than hav…

Most places make it at the end of your current contract you automatically go month to month. They cannot kick you out.

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#74

Post by wolco »

emptysongglass wrote: post #58
ravenstine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get that argument. Going by your logic, housing itself is classist because people who aren't at least in the middle class can't afford houses much of the time. And maybe it is, but then what? Are we supposed to abolish classism because some people are less fortunate?

Leasing property should be out of the hands of regular regular folks because regular folks don't know how to handle it ethically. I define regular folks as pretty much anyone not heavily regulated for ethical performance. The problem with leasing property is that once you've bought the property to lease, you the landlord (good god the feudal nature of the word itself should be setting off alarm bells) are now in poss…

Can you name and shame the country?

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#75

Post by lasgsf »

This is pretty absurd as your hypothesis makes no sense. The drive for revenue is going to override any government demand for oversight. Any government stupid enough to put up this would kill tourism which is the lifeblood of many cities. Money speaks and I don't see any government enacting this anywhere irrespective of AirBnb being there or not.

Now for Airbnb I am taking the reverse and contraion position that they will actually come out this ahead of most hospitality companies. Simple they don't own any assets and have the ability to ratchet down or up depending on the macro-environment. Also let's be honest here is that host will come back as its a another way for them to monetize their assets especially the economic situation right now.

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#76

Post by emptysongglass »

wolco wrote: post #74
emptysongglass wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leasing property should be out of the hands of regular regular folks because regular folks don't know how to handle it ethically. I define regular folks as pretty much anyone not heavily regulated for ethical performance. The problem with leasing property is that once you've bought the property to lease, you the landlord (good god the feudal nature of the word itself should be setting off alarm bells) are now in poss…

Can you name and shame the country?

Norway, specifically the city of Høvik, which is practically a part of Oslo being as close as it is to the Oslo city center.

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#77

Post by heavenlyblue »

gumby wrote: post #61
heavenlyblue wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an alternative point of view: If you’re cosy-conscious; then don’t travel. Many places would be much better without a constant onslaught of poor tourists.

It’s a luxury only for the wealthy? My parents went on walkabout through the 60s and 70s dragging their kids behind them (starting about age 3, and not even two for my sister) and it was great. All over South and Southeast Asia and Western Europe. We certainly saw the countries in ways that would have been invisible had we been staying in luxury hotels, or spent the whole of the first 15 years of my life in Australia…

Nobody asks you to pay for a _luxury_ hotel, by the way.

Also today for me it seems that renting a cheap AirBnb is akin to making photos of yourself next to sedated tigers/elephants/you name it - it does the same to erode the local culture.

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#78

Post by wyager »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #47
wyager wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think it needs to be "regulated out of existence", it sounds like you think it actually is sustainable; you just don't like it. > It is extremely classist. Only something that middle class or higher can use So you think any business which isn't affordable to everyone should be shut down?

I think the part of the sentence missing in your quote ("while reducing housing availability which primarily impacts lower classes") explains his stance. Usually businesses catering to the upper classes don't usually do so at the detriment of "the poor". For example Ferrari selling 100k+ cars doesn't prevent me from buying a cheap car. Homeowners renting to "rich people" prevents a poor person from renting the same a…

Why do you say it's "above market" when there's a market for it?

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#79

Post by wyager »

empath75 wrote: post #33
wyager wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think it needs to be "regulated out of existence", it sounds like you think it actually is sustainable; you just don't like it. > It is extremely classist. Only something that middle class or higher can use So you think any business which isn't affordable to everyone should be shut down?

If I build a factory that dumps toxic sludge into the water supply, that’s not sustainable and yet it might be quite profitable in the absence of regulation.

Airbnb doesn't have massive uninternalized externalities. The preconditions of the Coase theorem are pretty close to being met when it comes to house rental.

Re: Ask HN: Will this be the end of Airbnb?

#80

Post by wyager »

Raed667 wrote: post #30
wyager wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than have a full-time tenant (that has a lot of legal protection regarding eviction) This sounds like a pretty convincing argument against laws that are extremely lopsided in favor of tenants. If you make renting out property an extremely high-risk proposition, of course property owners are going to prefer something less risky.

I have to disagree there. Feeling safe in your rented apartment from unjustified evictions, doubling rent without notice, or landlord trespassing etc.. is an absolute must.

I am safer from all of those things living in a ~completely deregulated housing market than I ever was living in the highly regulated NYC housing market. I couldn't change my apartment keys in NY, but that's expected here in Hong Kong. And how do you define "unjustified eviction"? The criteria for eviction and rent changes are clearly spelled out in the 2 or 3 page contract I signed for my apartment here, unlike the multi-hundred-page legalese nightmare I signed in NYC (once again, thanks to the overbearing "tenant protection" laws).
Post reply on HN