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Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

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Re: Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

#71
How about a "Reset Buddy"?

During registration, a user adds a reset email that was different from the user's primary email. The email address is of someone you know who can give you the reset key when it is emailed to them.

With this approach, your designated reset buddy's email would have to be hacked as well then. So, even if you've been completely Pwn3d, your buddy hasn't.

Re: Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

#72
For valuable accounts, it may make sense to require physical contact in any "I've lost all credentials" scenario.

While there's still a balance between convenience and security, this is an effective deterrent, as it generally requires the attackers to risk being identified (and makes it hard for non-local attackers who may rely on effective immunity from prosecution because their local gov't won't care), so the attackers will pick another target.

Depending on what's possible, things like requiring them to actually visit you with an ID (some financial institutions do this), verifying identity and documents over a video chat (much harder to fake than photoshopping a single scan of ID, and in case of fraud, you'd have identifying info - video of face and voice of a fraudster or their associate), delivering new credentials by courier to the HQ of the company who's your customer, delivering new credentials by physical mail to the billing address, things like that - things that tie to the physical identity of the real customer instead of just their online accounts, or things that require a potential attacker to surrender part of their anonymity.

Re: Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

#73
As of now there’s not much you can do other than educating your users.

Maybe add a workflow that checks whether they have the backup code or not and if not prompt them to note it down again. Maybe on second login/usage after setting up 2FA. If they still don’t do it just revert to email reset.

There isn’t much you can do if the user isn’t security conscious and doesn’t intend to be.

Is it a particular demographic? I’d assume this is an issue faced by most of the apps with 2FA.

Re: Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Photo ID is not used for authenticating that the person lives at the address. That's why voting registration or driver's license requires proof of residency [1]: > A few examples of acceptable documents to prove California residency are: > Rental or lease agreement with the signature of the owner/landlord and the tenant/resident > Deed or title to residential real property > Mortgage bill > Home utility bills (includ…

I've never understood why these documents are meaningful in any way. The people at the DMV aren't qualified to judge whether these documents are forgeries, and certainly not in the ~5 seconds they spend looking at them. Anyone with a printer and Microsoft Paint can produce one of these in two minutes.

When I was getting my state ID, I wasn't prepared to have proof of residency, so I ended up downloading a bank statement from my mobile banking app, and presented the corner with my address & name on it to the clerk. I also wouldn't put much trust into the address information on IDs.

Re: Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

#75
Look at the NIST defined identity assurance levels and the guidance for MFA issuance.

Trust isn’t cheap. Credit based verification services are better than email. Adding verification via physical mail adds some value.

Fundamentally, you need to decide whether it’s important to know that I am in control of the email address associated with “Spooky23”, or that I am a particular human being.

Re: Ask HN: What is a secure way to allow 2FA resets?

#76
post #71

How about a "Reset Buddy"? During registration, a user adds a reset email that was different from the user's primary email. The email address is of someone you know who can give you the reset key when it is emailed to them. With this approach, your designated reset buddy's email would have to be hacked as well then. So, even if you've been completely Pwn3d, your buddy hasn't.

That is good approach for all invite-only and referal-based services.
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