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Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#71

Post by mrdependable »

anovikov wrote: post #24

Do some high-value per hour consulting and forget of full time jobs, they aren't for guys with your level of experience, who could leverage your skills and pay you appropriate money without putting off other employees? Do consulting and charge $300 per hour.

I second this. I know a couple people in their 70s who do nothing but consulting. They make great money and mostly work directly with the founders of companies who have ideas about big projects they want their business to undertake and need guidance.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#72

Post by insvwallhitsyou »

Can relate to most of that. After passing on-site day and hiring committee at a FAANG, was nixed at the executive level for "career trajectory" issues. In other words, "too old". Another place opined "skills rusty" after I pulled a recursive-descent parser off the top of my head in five minutes.

One of the problems with rich companies is that they can afford to have nonsense hiring policies. There's no real pressure to do right by candidates, so why bother?

I ultimately stumbled across a solution of sorts, which was to find a money-poor, non-SV organization with serious tech problems to solve. They're f___ing lucky to have me, they know it, and I'm treated accordingly. Very gratifying.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#73

Post by mattlondon »

infecto wrote: post #55

Serious question. Is ageism a huge deal? I am not arguing it does not exist but I think about what I have seen in the interviews I have done. We all have biases and I will never be completely unbiased but I try to at least be aware. I sometimes feel that ageism is actually the filter. I notice people I have worked with they at some point stop caring and they kind of give up. They don't stay relevant with whats happen…

With respect I think that those characteristics could equally apply to anyone - old, young or somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say any of those are specific to people approaching their retirement age.

For example I interviewed someone in their early 20s a little while ago who knew Angular 1 inside-out and to the absolute finest detail, but that is obsolete now that we're on Angular 6/React etc - they had never used modern Angular, Typescript or React... just good old Angular1 + JS. Did they stay relevant? nope. Are they old? nope. The benefit of the doubt for the early-20s person could be to just assume they don't know Angular6+TS because they were working on legacy code and didn't get the chance, but should I treat the early-20s person any different from a 60s person all other things being equal? nope. I am sure they could both pick up the new skills just as easily.

I know a lot of retired people socially (parents/friends of friends, neighbors etc - alas not that many from work) who are still 100% as sharp as a tack - quick-witted, intelligent, energetic etc. It would be unfair to use their age as a filter based on assumptions of how they would perform in an interview based on how other entirely different individuals have behaved in previous interviews.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#74

Post by gorbachev »

duxup wrote: post #8

Heck I'm only over 40. I did a handful of interviews at places where folks who I went to school with also interviewed. I got a lot of "culture" questions. My younger classmates, did not hear the world "culture" in their interviews, ever. It's hard not to be pessimistic and assume "culture" was about age...

Trust me, this was a good thing.

If you had been hired in those companies, you wouldn't have lasted long. Unless you have a supernatural talent on filtering out bullshit.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#75

Post by duxup »

gorbachev wrote: post #74
duxup wrote: post #8

Heck I'm only over 40. I did a handful of interviews at places where folks who I went to school with also interviewed. I got a lot of "culture" questions. My younger classmates, did not hear the world "culture" in their interviews, ever. It's hard not to be pessimistic and assume "culture" was about age...

Trust me, this was a good thing. If you had been hired in those companies, you wouldn't have lasted long. Unless you have a supernatural talent on filtering out bullshit.

I think filtering out BS is pretty much every job, it's just what the bs is, where, and etc.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#76

Post by infecto »

mattlondon wrote: post #73
infecto wrote: post #55

Serious question. Is ageism a huge deal? I am not arguing it does not exist but I think about what I have seen in the interviews I have done. We all have biases and I will never be completely unbiased but I try to at least be aware. I sometimes feel that ageism is actually the filter. I notice people I have worked with they at some point stop caring and they kind of give up. They don't stay relevant with whats happen…

With respect I think that those characteristics could equally apply to anyone - old, young or somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say any of those are specific to people approaching their retirement age. For example I interviewed someone in their early 20s a little while ago who knew Angular 1 inside-out and to the absolute finest detail, but that is obsolete now that we're on Angular 6/React etc - they had never use…

100%. I am not suggesting these characteristics are only found in a specific age group. I am suggesting that I find this to be true the older someone is. I still would like to believe that the majority of the issues are not true ageism.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#77

Post by Townley »

I wonder if this is less a problem with your skills not keeping up with the industry, and more with your job search practices not keeping up.

I recently helped a friend through a job search, and was shocked by how much the process has changed in the past 3-4 years. Recruiters are inundated with thousands of resumes. So traditional job application practices ("Write a cover letter and email in the resume") or semi-recent practices ("Cast a wide net on Monster, Indeed, LinkedIn...) perhaps no longer have the rate of return that you're expecting.

I read through the book, "What Color is your Parachute: 2018 Edition" to better help my friend, and the book offers full sections on how to do better than just "putting your resume out there." Working personal connections, announcing employment intentions during coding meetups, writing specific emails to companies you respect (independent from whether they're currently hiring for your position) or getting even more creative with getting your info out there... all of the above are practices that might not have been necessary during your last search (they certainly weren't during mine).

Maybe I'm underestimating the massive extent of blatant ageism in the software industry, but I'm quite surprised that someone with your skill set can't yell from a crowded street corner and have six recruiters materialize. That leads me to think it's not a matter of what you're offering, but rather how you're selling.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#78

Post by mosdl »

mchannon wrote: post #4

One theory: The Bay Area has become seriously ageist. Many people have a hard time accepting working for someone a generation younger than them, and especially hiring a subordinate a generation older than them. The people reviewing your resume and interviewing you won't say it (they're not allowed to by law) but they'll definitely be thinking it, and it ends up being a huge waste of your time. I genuinely think it's…

Same thing happens in Austin/NY, nothing Bay Area specific

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#80

Post by octokatt »

d4n0ct wrote: post #3

Not in HR myself, but maybe they are looking for candidates that would stay with the company for a longer time. It may also be easier to persuade/manage younger minds or groom them for leadership positions. Why are you job hopping, if you don't mind me asking?

I was looking for this answer, and sad to see it so far down the bottom.

If a company is hiring for a senior position, then _from an HR perspective_ they want the employee to ideally stay for 2-4 years. You're at the age where not only you could retire soon, if the job gets hard then it's a permanent option on the table that an employer will need to continue to compete against and eventually will lose.

Going for high-pay contracting positions will probably be hugely effective. People will understand where you're coming from, and you might get to work on more interesting things because your resume impressively speaks for itself.

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