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Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

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Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#71

Post by nickpsecurity »

gscott wrote: post #67
geofft wrote: post #38

One possible option is to sell VPN service to friends/family/acquaintances, for a price that is (clearly to them) cheaper than comparable commercial VPNs, in exchange for a promise to not do anything that would get you in legal trouble. You can trust the promise more than you could trust standard terms-of-service because you know them, and hopefully the lower price means they see it as you offering them something as…

Just tell customers everything is logged and the logs are deleted on a rolling basis every year.

And the logs are stored encrypted offline. They move over a one-way link from main server somewhere else in case of a compromise. They're never shared except with law enforcement with a warrant per privacy policy and EULA.

Inspires more confidence if they're kept temporarily but heavily protected.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#72

Post by terrycody »

farresito wrote: post #43
wild_preference wrote: post #35

One of my "favorite" evil business models is Hola VPN ( https://hola.org ), a free browser VPN extension. Hola VPN users unknowingly become exit nodes for residential IP address proxies for sale at https://luminati.io .

Thank you for mentioning it. Just removed it. Do you know of any good, non-expensive (VPN?) alternatives? I was using it to access Netflix in other languages for language learning purposes.

I got a free VPN plan can share with you, in a very very low cost, and you can use it for 1-2 years, at least, reply me with your email, I will contact u.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#73

Post by bigger_cheese »

robben1234 wrote: post #39
rsync wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One very interesting niche that I recently learned about was providing a VPN with a "residential" IP block that could be used to geo-shift netflix viewing: https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/138668/vps-for-us-netf... Apparently there are a lot of people who would like to watch "US Netflix" but cannot do so from their location.

It's the main usage of VPN (as well as region locked mmos) for those who are not doing it for security.

The Consumer advocacy group here in Australia, CHOICE, specifically recommends using a VPN service to avoid geoblocking (https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-and-technology/interne...). So there is definitely a market for this type of service.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#74

Post by exolymph »

wild_preference wrote: post #58
foob wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As part of a company in the residential proxy space [1], I just wanted to point out that this type of proxy is used in a very different way than low-end VPNs. Residential proxies tend to much more expensive, and this results in them being used almost exclusively for legitimate business purposes. It's even a standard practice to go through a KYC process before obtaining access to residential proxies in order to ensure…

My critique is that Hola VPN users don't realize that they are peers, nor what that entails even if you were to use more direct language than the vague "share your idle resources with the community!" rhetoric on Hola VPN's homepage. But since you brought it up, we both know residential proxies are especially attractive to bad actors and circumventors. It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipato…

Upvoted for realism, but I want to respond to this:

> It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals.

Of course. That's the reality of freedom on the radical edges — bad actors need it more than pro-social actors. Many of us choose to support radical freedom(s) anyway because the capacity for anyone to act* freely is judged to outweigh the negative effects from bad actors.

*browse, post, etc.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#75

Post by dragonwriter »

exolymph wrote: post #74
wild_preference wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My critique is that Hola VPN users don't realize that they are peers, nor what that entails even if you were to use more direct language than the vague "share your idle resources with the community!" rhetoric on Hola VPN's homepage. But since you brought it up, we both know residential proxies are especially attractive to bad actors and circumventors. It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipato…

Upvoted for realism, but I want to respond to this: > It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals. Of course. That's the reality of freedom on the radical edges — bad actors need it more than pro-social actors. Many of us…

Phrased a different way, the argument is that the benefit of the freedom for those incorrectly assessed to be bad actors outweighs the cost of the freedom for those correctly judged to be bad actors.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#77

Post by exolymph »

dragonwriter wrote: post #75
exolymph wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted for realism, but I want to respond to this: > It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals. Of course. That's the reality of freedom on the radical edges — bad actors need it more than pro-social actors. Many of us…

Phrased a different way, the argument is that the benefit of the freedom for those incorrectly assessed to be bad actors outweighs the cost of the freedom for those correctly judged to be bad actors.

Yes, well-put.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#78

Post by computerfriend »

Kaveren wrote: post #55
farresito wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for mentioning it. Just removed it. Do you know of any good, non-expensive (VPN?) alternatives? I was using it to access Netflix in other languages for language learning purposes.

ProtonVPN has a free plan, I recommend it quite strongly. Netflix works on the server I use, though I'm not sure if it works for all servers. P2P traffic is not allowed on free servers. Support is okay, not the fastest. Downtime is rare but not unheard of, they've been targeted with big DDoS attacks. Server options expanding but not in tons of countries. Most trustworthy and reputable service because it has a CEO you…

This is ironic given the connection between ProtonVPN and Hola/Luminati.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#79

Post by 0xb100db1ade »

wild_preference wrote: post #35

One of my "favorite" evil business models is Hola VPN ( https://hola.org ), a free browser VPN extension. Hola VPN users unknowingly become exit nodes for residential IP address proxies for sale at https://luminati.io .

Relevant section of EULA: http://archive.is/n7wCB#selection-645.1-651.45

> In return for free usage of Hola Free VPN Proxy, Hola Fake GPS location and Hola Video Accelerator, you may be a peer on the Luminati network. By doing so you agree to have read and accepted the terms of service of the Luminati SDK SLA. You may opt out by becoming a premium user.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like to run a VPN as a business?

#80

Post by Kaveren »

computerfriend wrote: post #78
Kaveren wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ProtonVPN has a free plan, I recommend it quite strongly. Netflix works on the server I use, though I'm not sure if it works for all servers. P2P traffic is not allowed on free servers. Support is okay, not the fastest. Downtime is rare but not unheard of, they've been targeted with big DDoS attacks. Server options expanding but not in tons of countries. Most trustworthy and reputable service because it has a CEO you…

This is ironic given the connection between ProtonVPN and Hola/Luminati.

What are you referring to? The situation I found bits and pieces about didn't seem to amount to much of anthing. ProtonVPN was able to explain what happened to what I thought was a satisfactory degree [1].

I definitely don't trust NordVPN in particular, they advertise their "military grade encryption", and I have no clue who runs it.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn...

What other VPN would you trust? Mullvad, absolutely no clue who runs it. Private Internet Access had claims about logs proven in federal court at some point in the past, but I really still don't trust it.

Running your own VPN is one of the best options but you almost completely lose the relatively reasonable degree of anonymity that VPN providers serve to you. Depends on your objectives.

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