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Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

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Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#71

Post by carsongross »

commentzorro wrote: post #68
carsongross wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was obviously being flippant, but a long story short is that going to a JSON-based, RPC-style SPA app gives up a lot of the advantages of the original RESTful web network architecture, not the least of which being simplicity. Long-suffering HN readers can skip all of this (sorry guys) but I expand on this in the following blog posts: http://intercoolerjs.org/2016/01/18/rescuing-rest.html http://intercoolerjs.org/20…

All of these seem to imply discoverability and queries are the biggest pain point in web apps. For me, in creating specific purpose business apps, the biggest headaches are presenting the data in ways that minimize the user's unnecessary actions and, even more of a pain, wiring things up so an event in one location triggers the proper client display changes in another location. For my use cases, discoverability and a…

Mmm, this is probably a long conversation, but I don't disagree with what you are saying. I think discoverability (in API terms) is different than the flexibility that HATEOAS, with a proper hypertext gives you.

The query issue just depends on how complex your data consumption needs are. The closer they get to levels requiring SQL-levels of expressivity, the more you will need to either churn your API or expose expressivity (and security risk) on the browser side.

In the old days, the way we dealt with changing the UI in another location was by simply replacing the whole page. This actually works pretty well, except for those FOUCs, and we are heading back that way, but now people are starting to do DOM diffs to avoid the blinky-blink. intercooler has a few options for solving it as well (either expanding your replacement target or using dependencies.) I imagine eventually I'll end up adding DOM-merging as an option as well.

Anyway, it's a long conversation.

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#72

Post by citrusx »

drinchev wrote: post #64
dabernathy89 wrote: post #7

Absolutely. Most projects that would be considered "websites" rather than "web applications" are likely candidates for jQuery. It's still extraordinarily useful.

I disagree. jQuery was the tool that acts as a "polyfill" for cross-browser compatibility. Nowadays jQuery is dying, not because of React, Angular or TypeScript, Elm. It's dying because of browser-support of `querySelectorAll`, unified event handlers, unified AJAX request API and others. jQuery had it's time. Now you just use "vanilla" JS and it is enough. No external dependencies for your landing-page / non-web-app…

Here's what I tell my devs:

Yes, "you might not need jQuery". But, the first time you have to log real hours fixing a cross-browser bug that the jQuery team already took care of, I'm fucking firing you. Choose wisely.

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#73

Post by flukus »

citrusx wrote: post #72
drinchev wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. jQuery was the tool that acts as a "polyfill" for cross-browser compatibility. Nowadays jQuery is dying, not because of React, Angular or TypeScript, Elm. It's dying because of browser-support of `querySelectorAll`, unified event handlers, unified AJAX request API and others. jQuery had it's time. Now you just use "vanilla" JS and it is enough. No external dependencies for your landing-page / non-web-app…

Here's what I tell my devs: Yes, "you might not need jQuery". But, the first time you have to log real hours fixing a cross-browser bug that the jQuery team already took care of, I'm fucking firing you. Choose wisely.

Probably hyperbolic, but if not what you're really telling your devs is:

"If you make a mistake try to cover it up rather than be honest about it, because your arse is on the line".

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#74

Post by flukus »

tomcam wrote: post #13

Do you know a better library for support of a wide array of browsers going back many years, with a huge log of support issues and test cases behind it?

Not necessarily better, but there are a few similar libraries from that time, like prototypejs.

But it's not about whether there is something better, it's whether it's still needed or not.

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#75

Post by flukus »

fetbaffe wrote: post #59
labster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP should be significantly more embarrassing than jQuery. The jQuery interface is well designed and reliable. The fact that it still works is important. As long as I've got clients asking for IE 8 support, jQuery's going to be in my toolbox. And probably even after.

PHP has a renaissance now, nothing embarrassing at all.

$Do $you $still $need $dollars $everywhere?

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#78

Post by commentzorro »

carsongross wrote: post #71
commentzorro wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these seem to imply discoverability and queries are the biggest pain point in web apps. For me, in creating specific purpose business apps, the biggest headaches are presenting the data in ways that minimize the user's unnecessary actions and, even more of a pain, wiring things up so an event in one location triggers the proper client display changes in another location. For my use cases, discoverability and a…

Mmm, this is probably a long conversation, but I don't disagree with what you are saying. I think discoverability (in API terms) is different than the flexibility that HATEOAS, with a proper hypertext gives you. The query issue just depends on how complex your data consumption needs are. The closer they get to levels requiring SQL-levels of expressivity, the more you will need to either churn your API or expose expre…

> I imagine eventually I'll end up adding DOM-merging as an option as well.

This will be nice. I was playing with some of the examples on the site and noticed a number of them tended to "jump" a bit when the response was returned.

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#79

Post by Raed667 »

grayrest wrote: post #57
Raed667 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenUI5 [0] relies on jQuery [0] http://openui5.org/

I'd never heard of this library and I spend a couple hours a day reading developer news so I wouldn't call this popular. I'd also argue that this as a current generation framework. I only did a brief skim but the patterns remind me of a Knockout or Enyo codebase with data binding between components doing explicit dom manipulation. The contributors tab shows a 2014 start but I'd have guessed a 2010-2011 start from loo…

Check every new SAP web application. It is not the best out there, but it is used A LOT.

Re: Ask HN: Is jQuery still a thing?

#80

Post by dabernathy89 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #26
toadkicker wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really silly that is how the culture behaves. The right tool for the job is a common moniker in other industries, yet in ours its the source of heated debate and hipsterdom.

PHP is some tool that was never really good, but had some compelling features that no other tools provided. Except that now there are better tools for any task it solved, excluding the task of "maintaining a PHP codebase". If you are starting a new project on it, you should indeed feel silly.

Have you looked at the PHP landscape over the past few years? You may still not love the syntax, but PHP as a language, an ecosystem, and a developer community is extremely strong. It's a fantastic choice for a web app in 2016.
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