Yes, used the UML class diagrams, sequence diagrams and Statechart diagrams for an embedded device software.
It's just a tool for modelling. You can pick and choose the diagrams you need, and at the abstraction level you desire.
Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
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Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#72I absolutely hate UML and regard the associated tools as time swallowing abominations and the main advocates that I encountered as the worst kind of snake oil salespeople. Of course, other people's experience may differ - but I largely thought it was a big con.
Rational Rose was terrible at UX, but surprisingly it was a de-facto standard.
Now that was an expensive con. All UML bullshit is a joke: more energy is spent on being Correct than addressing the original issue UML was meant to solve.
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#73plantuml is nice. ;)
Plantuml + org-mode = live, up-to-date high level design docs
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#74HackerNews may not be the best place to sample for UML usage. It consists mainly of two communities that have a bias against formal engineering methodologies in the development of software.
I won't comment on the pros and cons of UML. Instead I'll invite you to ask yourself a couple of questions.
1. What other clients do you support who have similar characteristics as this client (and may therefore also benefit from UML support)? If the number is significant in terms of impact to your bottom line versus the time you'd have to spend implementing it, then you should consider it worth your time, and view it as an opportunity to up-sell (if you can) or keep existing customers.
2. Do you intend to attempt to move into supporting large enterprise, and especially government contractors? If so, you might consider UML support just because it is ubiquitous there.
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#75UML can be a great communication tool in specific situations but when it becomes a religion your organization will suffer. I'm older than most here, drank the cool-aid that predicted code generation and round tripping but spit it back up before the poison had a chance to set in. A bonus comment for the youngin's ... When you hear that some new system will allow "the common man" to write his own software without devel…
Per your bonus comment:
Imagine an app where you can fix your own car without any mechanical knowledge. The user simply explains the problem to the app and the app figures it out. In every scenario the app ends up directing you to an actual mechanic.
That's my best analogy to "programming without programming".
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#76Yes I do. When you have a team of developers with different model of how the system should work or works, it's usually a recipe for disaster. By modeling, we get to unify our thoughts and idea of the system. When starting out a project, I tend to lean more towards well labeled conceptual diagrams. I will also use activity diagram, sequence and state diagrams. While I have often read about people designing class diagr…
Any tool in particular that you suggest to make diagrams? Or maybe just pen and paper? I tried StarUML 2 and it's ok but I found it slightly clunky (it also does not have a realtime collaboration feature as far as I know, that would be nice to have when your team is remote IMHO)
Try https://www.lucidchart.com . It is slick, has real-time collaboration, has UML (including via markup) and lots of other diagrams. Freemium that allows you to do most things.
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#77It is useful if you are able to generate code from it. I know one big software company (more than 3000 employee) that generate 90% of all it's code base (~20M lines of code).
Must be some pretty trivial software, since 90% of the code base is apparently class and function declarations filled with empty or pointless (get/set) OO garbage.
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#78Been working in a large corp for last 5 years. Never created a single UML chart, maybe I've seen one or two.
Maybe it's because I work in front-end, which "traditionally" is a bit less strict (JS is dynamically typed etc.), but also, I think that typically the codebase changes too rapidly and the fancy graphs can't catch up with that, they get outdated in a few months, and no one bothers to update them or even look at them anymore (they might be useful in the beginning of the project though).
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#79I draw UML diagrams frequently. I almost never persist them, though. As they say, the only thing worse than no documentation is out of date documentation.
I can definitely see an argument for certain types of projects (libraries and frameworks). If you have diagramming capability, and you are in the enterprise Windows market, I think this is a no-brainer. I'd be curious what diagramming support you had if it were not UML....
Having said that, I wouldn't try to implement a full object modelling solution. It's not the kind of thing that help files need. Actor diagrams and sequence diagrams would make more sense to me.
Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?
#80UML can be a great communication tool in specific situations but when it becomes a religion your organization will suffer. I'm older than most here, drank the cool-aid that predicted code generation and round tripping but spit it back up before the poison had a chance to set in. A bonus comment for the youngin's ... When you hear that some new system will allow "the common man" to write his own software without devel…
Per your bonus comment: Imagine an app where you can fix your own car without any mechanical knowledge. The user simply explains the problem to the app and the app figures it out. In every scenario the app ends up directing you to an actual mechanic. That's my best analogy to "programming without programming".
yup, because the tools in the drawers of your roll-away have nuances you have to learn - a syntax if you will. And each of the potentially bad parts you need to replace has interactions with other parts of the car (the system).
I just changed the alternator on my truck - you have to wait for the exhaust to cool before you do it, disconnect the battery and then punch the security code into the radio when you're done.
A business person trying to write their own software (assuming they're not also a developer and that they believe some magic tool will let them complete it) will end up with painfully burned hands in the process and at the end they won't be blissfully listening to music again.