Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#71

Post by beachstartup » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #57

up_and_up wrote: post #14

I have worked remotely for 4 years. Start by creating a remote-first culture. Everyone should think "remote" first. Thus it should never matter if a local employee is working from home, the HQ, from the other side of the world. Make all work processes remote friendly. That should be step zero when considering hiring a remote person regardless of the reason. The goal should be to avoid a two-tiered culture. Some diffe…

>Have in-person meetups 2-4 x a year for beneficial face-time and for people to get to know each other better on a personal level. This is a turn-off for me as a full-time remote worker. When I browse remote job listings, a lot of companies list this like it's a perk. Maybe it's a perk if you're a 23-year-old single guy, but it's not a perk for me; it actually flies in the face of why I'm a remote worker, which is th…

> One of the great things about remote work is that it takes a great deal of bullshit out of the employment process; you don't have to worry about if you're making the wrong facial contortions, if you're offending someone by slouching, if you look bored, or if you laugh hard enough at someone's bad attempt at a joke. The work is the focus.

all this still happens on the phone, and in chat, and in ticket updates. little textual mannerisms, passive aggressive bullshit, inappropriate comments, inattentiveness, over-attentiveness, obsessive compulsive typing habits, deliberately ignoring stuff, the list goes on and on. and video chat is its own can of worms.

but you're just better at that particular game, so you prefer it. you spent 6 paragraphs rationalizing it, but really, you just prefer one pile of shit to another.

other people don't have that limitation, we can operate in person just fine.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#72

Post by ylem » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 5:21 PM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #22

planetjones wrote: post #7

With difficulty: 1) Use as many visual techniques as possible e.g. Screen sharing and drawing pictures and sketching examples of what you're talking about. 2) open chat channels all day 3) ability to build rapport e.g. During standup calls look at what the weather is like in their country or share something about what's happening in your area at the weekend. Ice breakers if you will 4) if possible get them to visit y…

Do you have a preferred sketching tool? One thing I've yet to figure out remote is a seemless whiteboard session.

I find my boogie board works really well as an input device! I believe you can also set it up to transmit to a webpage.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#73

Post by pinewurst » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:37 PM UTC

I've been working remote for the past 5 years at 2 employers.

My first group was very coherent and supportive even if remote. We were constantly in contact via chat/email/phone and there was a sense that we could count on each other to get things done. We only met in person once or twice a year, which didn't seem like a big gap given our close communication.

My current group, while the company strongly supports remote workers, is very detached and isolating. I actually see my coworkers a lot more frequently but don't feel a lot of commonality or support. Some of that is just how this organization is constructed - it deemphasizes peer-ship.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#74

Post by planetjones » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #22

planetjones wrote: post #7

With difficulty: 1) Use as many visual techniques as possible e.g. Screen sharing and drawing pictures and sketching examples of what you're talking about. 2) open chat channels all day 3) ability to build rapport e.g. During standup calls look at what the weather is like in their country or share something about what's happening in your area at the weekend. Ice breakers if you will 4) if possible get them to visit y…

Do you have a preferred sketching tool? One thing I've yet to figure out remote is a seemless whiteboard session.

I'm quite happy with SnagIt - just take a screenshot of my starting position and start to annotate it. Or start with a blank image in SnagIt and start to draw my boxes and arrows.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#75

Post by ollysb » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

dvcc wrote: post #36

dsp1234 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A concrete example of this is if someone stops by your area to ask a "quick question" then culturing an environment where an answer of, "Why don't you bring that up in the global chat so everyone can contribute?", is welcomed rather than brushed off as being unfriendly.

Would anyone else find this tiring though? I feel like I am omitting the use of basic communication skills in favor of something less than ideal. I guess I am just not a huge fan of remote work in general though, so I have a hard time coming around to the idea that quick questions must go through a chat at all times.

The equivalent for remote is to ask someone if they've got a sec to jump on a hangout, it definitely isn't to start having a chat on slack. Slack is extremely low bandwidth, especially if you're trying to reach consensus on something, where body language becomes more important.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#76

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #71

cookiecaper wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Have in-person meetups 2-4 x a year for beneficial face-time and for people to get to know each other better on a personal level. This is a turn-off for me as a full-time remote worker. When I browse remote job listings, a lot of companies list this like it's a perk. Maybe it's a perk if you're a 23-year-old single guy, but it's not a perk for me; it actually flies in the face of why I'm a remote worker, which is th…

> One of the great things about remote work is that it takes a great deal of bullshit out of the employment process; you don't have to worry about if you're making the wrong facial contortions, if you're offending someone by slouching, if you look bored, or if you laugh hard enough at someone's bad attempt at a joke. The work is the focus. all this still happens on the phone, and in chat, and in ticket updates. littl…

Nah, it's a lot less intense on IRC solely because there is a lot less data to read bad information out of. Paranoid people will always find something to be paranoid about, but there's a much smaller attack surface, and "Sorry, it must have come across wrong via text" is a pretty good catch-all excuse if anything goes awry.

I disagree that it's about being better at operating in one context or the other. It's about minimizing the issues. I've managed people in face-to-face work settings and over IM/email/whatever text-based. People generate far fewer petty grievances over a text-based medium, at least fewer grievances that they're willing to air, and it shouldn't be difficult to see why that's the case (there's very little non-work activity to get offended or suspicious about). It works much more smoothly in general, unless you have people that just can't read (which are plentiful).

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#77

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #69

cookiecaper wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Have in-person meetups 2-4 x a year for beneficial face-time and for people to get to know each other better on a personal level. This is a turn-off for me as a full-time remote worker. When I browse remote job listings, a lot of companies list this like it's a perk. Maybe it's a perk if you're a 23-year-old single guy, but it's not a perk for me; it actually flies in the face of why I'm a remote worker, which is th…

2-4 times a year is not really asking for much out of anyone. The fact is that relationships and trust especially can fray after a long time without actually meeting with people (most of the time, you may be a special case). Its a lot harder to know what a person has been actually doing and working on without a little bit of occasional face time - you may be in a very special situation where there are almost no benef…

>2-4 times a year is not really asking for much out of anyone.

Sure, I agree it's not "asking much" relative to the requirement of a lot of employers that you be in the office every day. That doesn't mean it's something to advertise as if it were a perk.

>Its a lot harder to know what a person has been actually doing and working on without a little bit of occasional face time

I don't get this. You only find out what your remote colleagues are working on 2-4 times a year when you have a company retreat?

>but for me its always been very helpful to get a good feel for who is on the other end of the keyboard, which becomes super useful for collaberations.

Yeah, I just don't see this either. I think I collaborate fine with my colleagues. I think the focus on work-related things that occurs in IRC makes it easier to respect one another professionally. It's not the best medium for some things, but it's a great medium for collaborating on a work-related issue, especially issues that require the sharing of logs or lines of code; it's a lot easier to send the message in Slack and collaborate that way than trying to do it in person and cram around one guy's computer.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#78

Post by beachstartup » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 8:56 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #76

beachstartup wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the great things about remote work is that it takes a great deal of bullshit out of the employment process; you don't have to worry about if you're making the wrong facial contortions, if you're offending someone by slouching, if you look bored, or if you laugh hard enough at someone's bad attempt at a joke. The work is the focus. all this still happens on the phone, and in chat, and in ticket updates. littl…

Nah, it's a lot less intense on IRC solely because there is a lot less data to read bad information out of. Paranoid people will always find something to be paranoid about, but there's a much smaller attack surface, and "Sorry, it must have come across wrong via text" is a pretty good catch-all excuse if anything goes awry. I disagree that it's about being better at operating in one context or the other. It's about m…

"nah" is a perfect example of what i'm talking about. a tiny little passive aggressive textual slight that would go unnoticed by most, but allows you to exercise a smidgeon of that petty vindictiveness you are so incapable of dealing with (or delivering correctly, i suspect...) in person.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#79

Post by alexeysemeney » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 8:57 PM UTC

I have been managing remote devs for 4 years and now running http://devteam.space. So, have a decent expertise at that. Maybe you can apply it too. Here are must have rules:

#1. You need to have a PM for remote devs, on their side. Or decide who is the PM out of these remote devs. This person will be your trustworthy manager. If something goes not right, you talk to him/her first. Ask him to provide all the honest and bold feedback from himself and all the other remote devs if something happens.

#2. Request daily short updates from every developer. Just 2-4 lines of text about what have been done during the day. Explain to them that you will not actually reply to these updates. It's just to keep everything transparent. So, they write - you only read. Rarely reply with some questions.

#3. Set the goals on projects you work on with them, request deadlines, you can set it in sprints. It's like mini OKRs (google it if you don't know what is it). It helps them to be accountant and spend their working hours wisely.

#4. Have at least one 30 min call per week with all the remote devs to chat about what you are doing and motivate them with some good news. So they would feel they actually get paid not just for the code, but they make a difference for your company and for your clients. Share with them what you personally have done during the week. All people want to work with even better people, so it should be clear for them that you are awesome. They will respect you more. Basically, treat them as your usual team members.

#5. Use some reporting tools. At DevTeamSpace we have this kind of dashboard - http://i.imgur.com/F6Q3COn.png . Maybe it would be helpful for you too.

In fact, so many companies struggle to manage remote dev teams. If you need any help - ping me at alexey(at)devteam.space.

Re: Ask HN: How do you integrate remote developers?

#80

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #78

cookiecaper wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's a lot less intense on IRC solely because there is a lot less data to read bad information out of. Paranoid people will always find something to be paranoid about, but there's a much smaller attack surface, and "Sorry, it must have come across wrong via text" is a pretty good catch-all excuse if anything goes awry. I disagree that it's about being better at operating in one context or the other. It's about m…

"nah" is a perfect example of what i'm talking about. a tiny little passive aggressive textual slight that would go unnoticed by most, but allows you to exercise a smidgeon of that petty vindictiveness you are so incapable of dealing with (or delivering correctly, i suspect...) in person.

What I'm taking from this is "beachstartup aggressively reads hostile intent into text messaging, avoid textual interaction with this person". I've found that far fewer people perform this type of aggressive misreading over text than over face-to-face stuck-in-a-room-with-you-for-40-hours-a-week interaction, that's all I'm saying.

I'm certainly not opposed to a video call or face-to-face meeting when it's the easiest way to clear things up. We're talking about the best mode for daily work interaction here, not the best mode for touchy-feely "make this guy like me again" interaction.