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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#691

Post by baby »

commandlinefan wrote: post #14

For me, I find there are peaks and valleys - there are times when I'm so overwhelmed with coding tasks I feel like I'm drowning and other times when there's a lot to do, but all of it's blocked waiting for somebody else to make a decision/finish doing something/approve a budget/etc. When I first found myself in the "wait" state, I figured the logical thing to do would be to proactively find something to improve: docu…

That’s what I do when I feel I’m in a low phase. Improve doc, CI, watch conference talks, read blog posts, etc. You can always improve things, even so slightly, when you’re not in a productive phase.

That’s something I haven’t seen mentioned in the comments at all. Am I the only one who alternates “my life is work” and “my work is life” phases?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#692

Post by medvezhenok »

echelon wrote: post #523
oakfr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read about the FIRE theory time and again. For some reason, I don't buy it. I fail to believe in the plan that consists in building enough FU money to then "be free". Free to do what? What was the plan originally? I think the real meaning of life is to do what you care about today, _with the constraints you have today_.

How large should your earnings be for FIRE? 250K? 1M? 4M? How can you model stock investments in a way that your capital does not diminish as you withdrawal?

There is a subreddit dedicated to answering those questions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/wiki/faq

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#693

Post by timmit »

Scenario A

- A guy he wrote codes for two hours, - he got stuck, so went out and bought a coffee took him one hours - during buying the coffee, he got an idea to solve the problem and solved

--- Should this 1 hour be counted as work or rest?

--- Scenario B

A guy he worked as a consultant (pay by hour)

- he was off for a day - he got some idea during his off - next day, he solved the problem for a client

= Should his off day be considered as work time?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#694

Post by viceroyalbean »

odonnellryan wrote: post #635
mattowen_uk wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding my voice to this one. I think a lot of work 'normal people' i.e. the PMs the non-technical management, the sales people etc. really don't get how we techies work. Because they have to do 'active' work all day long to keep on top, they think everyone is like that, where in reality we are really efficient in short bursts. I can ponder a deliverable for days and then just churn it out over a few hours, only takin…

The normals? Come on guys. Plenty of software devs are actually working during the day. What are you guys doing if you're not working? Reading articles? Playing Halo?

I didn't interpret the comment to be about not working, but rather about the non-linear nature of programming work. If you have 100 documents to process then you are halfway through after 50 and it will presumably take a similar amount of time as the first 50 did.

When writing code you might have written 10 lines of code in the past week, but the next day you write 200 because you've been thinking about the structure of the solution. In this way you might be working even if you're going on a walk or doing the dishes.

This isn't unique to programming, of course.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#695

Post by ctvo »

pugworthy wrote: post #616
ctvo wrote: post #589

I run into people like you in the field sometimes. Unless you're actively hindering my efforts at delivering something, I ignore you. If you're assigned a critical task, and you block us, I'll bring it up to stakeholders privately to ensure they understand what you're doing. Sometimes this results in you being fired, most of the time, you just get assigned less important work. I find people like you unpleasant to be…

> I find people like you unpleasant to be around because I value competency in my peers, so I tend to ignore you socially too, but outside of that I have no opinion on your choices. I think you have to be really careful about this. Sometimes people's work behavior is not a direct, "FU this is me and I'm proud of it!" attitude. Sometimes it's a reflection on depression, personal issues you don't know about, and even s…

We’re professional colleagues. If you need help with a work item I’m happy to assist. I’m not malicious or rude to people like OP, but I have no desire to fix them or help guide them through their personal issues.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#696

Post by raihansaputra »

jesuis_14 wrote: post #200

In the last year or two, I have not "worked" more than 1-2 hours a day on average--some days for a grand total of zero hours. The quote/unquote is not there by accident. I manage a team and some projects, and most of the time I let other people do the technical work while I get to chat with higher ups or give some general direction on where the work should go. I consider myself very competent in my field even though…

What is your title/job description? Are you more of a team lead/engineering manager?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#697

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

sq_ wrote: post #120
oceanghost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

For me it's often in the shower after work. Which is a pain because then I've gotta remember them until I get out and then find a way to remember them until the next day.

I got a good tip for this once: throw the shampoo bottle out of the shower onto the floor. It’s ideal for remembering when you need to buy more shampoo, but if the shampoo isn’t empty, it will remind you that there’s something you need reminding of.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#698

Post by MrWiffles »

Most days I do a solid 4 to 6 hours of “real work” with a few hours of overhead, admin or management bs spread in there. But today?

Today started 2 hours earlier than most, and 14 hours later I’m still at work, now on a client support call because they brought down their database and we just figured out how they broke it. It took us about 3.5 hours just to get this far; probably at least another hour or two to get them back up.

So no, I don’t think so. The easy days always get more than made up for by the necessary sacrifices we all make on days like today.

Oh, and as I wrote this, I got yet another meeting invite for a totally unrelated meeting tomorrow morning, again 2 hours earlier than a usual start.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#699

Post by godelski »

mring33621 wrote: post #223
i_dont_know_ wrote: post #18

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

I almost got fired once for explaining this to my boss. He felt very strongly that each day of a 10 day project should mark 10% in progress. I told him that instead, you think about it, explore a few ideas, then suddenly you might be at 80%. But it's not linear.

That just doesn't make sense because Pareto is a well known phenomena. To the point where it has entered the common lexicon (80/20 rule) and is essential for planning how long a project should take.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#700

Post by MaxDPS »

odonnellryan wrote: post #635
mattowen_uk wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding my voice to this one. I think a lot of work 'normal people' i.e. the PMs the non-technical management, the sales people etc. really don't get how we techies work. Because they have to do 'active' work all day long to keep on top, they think everyone is like that, where in reality we are really efficient in short bursts. I can ponder a deliverable for days and then just churn it out over a few hours, only takin…

The normals? Come on guys. Plenty of software devs are actually working during the day. What are you guys doing if you're not working? Reading articles? Playing Halo?

I mean ya, reading articles and documentation is a higher part of the job. But I’m this context, it’s not actively writing code.
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