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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#651

Post by ninjanomnom »

soneca wrote: post #527
jjav wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, they said they don’t do anything some days and bullshit their way to the next standup. It is clear to me where they stand at. But it's the agile standups that force the bullshitting. If you spent a day background thinking of best ways to achieve the goal while resting in your backyard hammock, there's no way you can say that out loud at the standup. So you're forced to come up with some random bullshit to fil…

> ” If you spent a day background thinking of best ways to achieve the goal while resting in your backyard hammock” There is absolutely no part of OP that warrants this charitable interpretation. My interpretation is that they just spent the day playing video game or something like that. You are reading things that are not there

Playing video games for many people is exactly as relaxing as hanging out in a hammock, with all the same background processing. I see no difference here between the hammock and video games here, it just depends on the person.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#652

Post by fernandotakai »

dunefox wrote: post #167
oceanghost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

> The problem is making that a regular occurrence. Ideally you shower every two days or so.

i shower twice a day -- between gym, walking my dog, living (south america is HOT), it's either shower once a day, or you start feeling like shit.,

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#653

Post by thewarrior »

jesuis_14 wrote: post #200

In the last year or two, I have not "worked" more than 1-2 hours a day on average--some days for a grand total of zero hours. The quote/unquote is not there by accident. I manage a team and some projects, and most of the time I let other people do the technical work while I get to chat with higher ups or give some general direction on where the work should go. I consider myself very competent in my field even though…

How do I sign up for your service :P

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#654

Post by a9h74j »

oceanghost wrote: post #112
ckaygusu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Poincar%C3%A9 > He never spent a long time on a problem since he believed that the subconscious would continue working on the problem while he consciously worked on another problem. This is definitely a thing. Intellectual labor just isn't physical labor.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

The new WFS trend -- Work From Shower.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#655

Post by CRConrad »

analog31 wrote: post #550
dennisy wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine ever returning to an office in which there is more pressure to spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of my computer. But this is what you are paid for. Do you not feel that this is what you should be doing in the time you are contracted to work?

In the US, very few full time professionals work under contract. In fact, companies go out of their way to assert that there is no contractual relationship (the "employment at will" principle). They do not count their hours, and are in fact not allowed to do so. With that said, I'd find it hard to work such a short week. The time I spend that's unaccounted for, I tend to spend helping other people at my workplace, le…

> In the US, very few full time professionals work under contract. In fact, companies go out of their way to assert that there is no contractual relationship (the "employment at will" principle).

Americans keep saying this means "no contract", but I don't get it. You probably have some weird American-only meaning attached to the word "contract" that doesn't apply to the rest of the world, in English as well as other languages. To the rest of us, "a contract" means a formal (usually written) agreement to exchange goods or services for payment. I find it utterly hard to believe that any full-time professional, even in America, is employed without having any piece of paper signed by their employer -- and they a copy signed by him -- that states basically "John Doe and Corporation X agree that John shall work full-time for X, and receive a salary of $Y per month".

If you do, that's a contract. If you don't, how do you know how much of a salary you're going to get at the end of the month? How does HR / Accounts know how much to pay you?

Of fucking course you have a contract. It's just that the terms for termination of that contract, whether specified within it or implicit because of "at will" legislation, are much more abrupt than most everywhere else. That doesn't make it not a contract.

> They do not count their hours, and are in fact not allowed to do so.

Like, if the company wants you to work 272 hours per week (hint: 24 × 7 = 168), you can't say you won't? Or is it the company that can't say anything if you show up three hours a month? Of course they count their hours, at least roughly. Everyone does.

Not that this has anything to do with whether something is a contract or not.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#656

Post by a9h74j »

daltont wrote: post #289
mring33621 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost got fired once for explaining this to my boss. He felt very strongly that each day of a 10 day project should mark 10% in progress. I told him that instead, you think about it, explore a few ideas, then suddenly you might be at 80%. But it's not linear.

Similar concept: If one was tasked to move a 10-ton block, 1000 yards in 10 days. You can use brute force move it 100 yards a day for 10 days or spend 5 days inventing a way to move it 1000 yards in day and get it done in 6 days.

You might also be familiar with the Abraham Lincoln quote: If I had four hours to chop down a tree I would spend three hours sharpening the ax.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#658

Post by bfung »

> Then I successfully bullshit my way through our next stand-up to hide my lack of production.

It probably means the team lead or manager doesn’t care too much whether your part is done or not, which means it’s probably not critical work. Or they don’t understand what you’re doing as well.

I can say that Bay Area / SV serious startups, there is no real slack at all, a well run team would be actively gathering requirements and building product at 50, 60+ hrs a week. Big Co., you can def get away with lot more, see google’s: rest & vest subculture.

It also depends on motivation and what the person wants to do with their time on earth.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#659

Post by ww520 »

soneca wrote: post #596
ww520 wrote: post #595

Once there was an old engineer retiring from a company after working there for many years. He's their top notch guy and knew their system inside out. Couple months later the biggest machine in the company stopped working, costing the company millions in lost production. No one could fix it. In desperation the manager called the engineer to come in to take a look. The engineer looked around the machine for a few minut…

I don’t think OP is solving any problems

Well, he got great reviews, so his managers must have thought he made enough contributions.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#660

Post by denkmoon »

soneca wrote: post #527
jjav wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, they said they don’t do anything some days and bullshit their way to the next standup. It is clear to me where they stand at. But it's the agile standups that force the bullshitting. If you spent a day background thinking of best ways to achieve the goal while resting in your backyard hammock, there's no way you can say that out loud at the standup. So you're forced to come up with some random bullshit to fil…

> ” If you spent a day background thinking of best ways to achieve the goal while resting in your backyard hammock” There is absolutely no part of OP that warrants this charitable interpretation. My interpretation is that they just spent the day playing video game or something like that. You are reading things that are not there

>My interpretation is that they just spent the day playing video game

>You are reading things that are not there

you too???

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