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Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

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Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#611
post #569

It seems you can't ignore a lot of this is a product of fewer children, temporary and transitional relationships that are not governed by the boundaries of marriage, and fewer intact families. This leads to fewer siblings, fewer responsibilities toward others, and more opportunities to be and feel isolated. There is a reason why the concept of a family protected by certain legal responsibilities and obligations have…

> The modern experimentation rejecting God and family doesn't seem to be working out so well.

Although I agree with the sentiment, I think the problem is what replaced it, not that they were replaced. Religious belief has been replaced by a quasi-religion revolving around clipling autodetermination and aggrandizement.

I don't think people suffer from not having faith in some god nowadays, I think they suffer for not having faith, period. I see people around me prefering to live in known discomfort, than choosing to "roll the dice". Religion played the role of teaching people not everything that happens to them is in their control, and comforting them that it would all turn out well. What we have nowadays is the awfuly debilitating belief that everything that happens in your life is your own doing, and that unless there's evidence thigns will work out, there's no reason to believe they will.

I personally see the risk-adversity this philosophy leads to everywhere. I see it in people prefering apps over potentially making a fools of themselves, or "risking it" with a stranger. I see it in people who want leave jobs or living situations but fail to take the leap. I see it in people strugging with even small decisions, obsessing over reading reviews for everything, refusing to commit in relationships.

Religion also gave you a certain peace of mind concerning your purpose in life, and assured you you could be perfectly content with little. In fact it assures you can be more "successful" at life than people who achieve great wealth or fame, since in religion success is measured by, say, devotion, acts of service, building a family, or other means instead.

This can be replaced by positive philosophies that focus people in the prusuit of eudaimonia, but instead have been replaced by reverence to aggrandizement and too often hedonism. The goal too often becomes fame, money, status, or, again, control, both out of fear your life might not be determined by you solely, and for the pursue of vain pleasures.

I see this as a product of an obsessive reverence to libertarian capitalism. Overall, it works very well in its favour. Convincing people the course of their lives depends soley on their own decisions is ingraining reverence for individualism and rejection for collectivism. The pursuit of wealth and status is good for the economy; when people are truly happy with the small things in life, they tend to buy less. I'm not saying libertarian capitalism lead to this philosophy, or that this philosophy lead to libertarian capitalism; I think they go hand-in-hand, and as one grows so does the other.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#612

I'm not lonely, but occasionally wish I had some meaningful friendships. Most people who want to be my "friend" just want something from me -- a job, help them move, buy their dumb products, watch their kids, drive them to the airport, whatever else they want to dump on me. I get that comes with friendships, but people go from zero to super favors in 2.1 seconds these days. Seems too burdensome, so I typically tell p…

Damn. There are some things here that resonated with me and some that don’t. I had a time of my life where I just felt like I didn’t vibe with my ex’s friends. We’d go to parties and these people would feel so shallow. Having grown up poor around a bunch of perpetually rich people made me feel different.

You also said that the world is burning, and it is to some defree. But it’s also filled with so many kind and amazing people making an impact where they are. Sure, maybe the gal serving coffee isn’t fixing climate change but she’s making the person she’s talking to that day feel special. That’s important too. Same goes down the soccer coach who’s helping kids find passion in something.

The world is full of contradictions and imperfections. It’s also full of kindness and generosity everywhere you go, if you’re looking for it. If you’re looking for ways to validate that the world is burning, your gonna find those too

Social media blows, I hate it too. I’m not entirely sure society is moving in the right direction, but I’m just an atom in the ocean. I can affect those around me and hopefully those people affect more. My hope is that my joy spreads through other people, and if it doesn’t, that’s ok too.

I’m bummed you’re hurting, and with a job and a million responsibilities it can be hard to lift your gaze to see the forest for the trees

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is answering the wrong question. You're answering the question, "In a loneliness epidemic, what can I do to be less lonely?" Your answer is to use self discipline (which is hard) to get out of your house consistently, a decent answer to that question. To actually fix the loneliness epidemic, you'd have to get everyone else to do that. In the 20th century, getting out of the house consistently was the easiest way…

I was with you up until you said policy was the solution. No, action must come first. Policy needs people to agree on it, and can take a long time to enact. Action can be done now, and allows experimentation and disagreement. I am looking for actionable solutions that I can experiment with as one lone individual with time to spare on Sundays.

Policy could make a huge difference.

Investing in free places where people can do cool things in public like libraries can help. Investing in public transportation so that more people can get around easier can help. Making sure that people have enough money that they don't need to work 2 jobs to get by and they aren't under constant worry of not being able to pay rent would help. Making sure people are able to get the healthcare they need so that they are feeling well enough to go out places would help.

It's hard to act when you're sick and exhausted and physically isolated and broke and there's nowhere in public filled with people worth visiting. Policy can help improve that situation so that action can happen.

> I am looking for actionable solutions that I can experiment with as one lone individual with time to spare on Sundays.

Since you've probably already got the time, energy, and money to invest this should be pretty easy.

The easiest answer? Go find a protest group. There are people out pretty much every week all over the place. You'll meet tons of very friendly people and you'll already have something to discuss with the strangers you meet. You can spend your weekends with new passionate people outdoors holding signs and marching around. Doesn't get more actionable than that. Comes with a low risk of getting shot or teargassed and a high risk of being profiled by the feds (although these days who isn't on a list right?)

Not political? Volunteer helping people. Soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and food banks are a great place to start. You'll be doing something good for others in your community and get a chance to meet and speak with other volunteers and the people you're helping. (Fair warning: repeated exposure to good people who are struggling may cause you to become more political)

Are you active? Join a sports team for a sport you enjoy or have always wanted to try. There are usually local groups looking for members and again you'll be starting with something to talk about and a shared interest.

Pay for classes in something you're interested in. Meet your teachers and classmates. Learn something cool in the process! Works best if you're learning something that requires you to create or do something.

Not in a relationship? Try dating. Be open about the fact that you're just looking to meet more interesting people. (this tip works infinitely better if you're a woman, but if you're comfortable with rejection, patient, and able to pay for multiple dating apps for indefinite periods of time where you don't get any takers it can work for almost anyone).

Pick a local bar and become a regular. Pay attention and if after a month or two you haven't clocked who the other regulars are pick a different bar and repeat. Once you've found some other regulars introduce yourself. As a bonus you'll both be socially lubricated when you meet and if it goes badly you can drown your sorrows in more drinks.

Like to drink but want to meet fewer alcoholics? Do the same thing but go to bars during karaoke and/or trivia nights.

Nerdy? Check gaming stores or the internet for a D&D group looking for members or even better look up where your local Society for Creative Anachronism meets and go there. You can meet people while you learn blacksmithing, or calligraphy, or archery.

Religious? Tour churches. This can be pretty fun even if you aren't religious. Most people will be very friendly and welcoming (results may vary depending on the church and your color/sexual orientation).

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#614
Loneliness is a symptom of the loss of the third place. You can't solve loneliness, but we can as a society look at why many have lost their place for socializing.

Hyperfocus on productivity, the one dimensional man that know only rest and work, and the rise of narcisism and hyper individuality, all causes of the loss of the third place.

Everyone needs to take on the quest to find where they belong, but society needs to give people time to invest in this quest.

So I think it's as simple as working less and spending more time with people.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#615

People need to purposefully and intentionally do things. Sitting home on an app, watching TV is easy. There is no fear or rejection, there is no work to get out of the house, there is no risk. But there is also no reward. My thoughts on this are you need to have multiple roots into your community. This is something that you go to often and talk to people, become a regular, say hi. Think back to how your parents or gr…

Sure, but what about the people who don't do this ? Those who sit at home all day, scrolling away, drinking themselves to death, wondering why life is so lonely. The only time you ever see such people is when they're walking to the grocery store. How do you reach out to them to let them know about these ideas or encourage them to try it? Especially when they're filled with discouraging thoughts? What if all they need…

If you're willing to put in the legwork, set up a event on your events platform of choice, take out an ad targeted locally and emphasize that it's free, and someone like me would sign up. I occasionally get ads for things happening locally but it's usually has some prepay component and feels like they are "dropshipping" an event. There are also [city] events pages on IG/fb

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I love you. Since I was a small child, my grandfather used to beat me savagely and shake me and pin me to the ground, screaming that the devil was inside of me and that I would never be capable of loving or being loved. This was literally beaten into me. He'd beat me with the buckle end of the belt, like a whip, hitting my face, arms, whatever he could. He'd keep beating me until I couldn't cry anymore, telling…

I appreciate the sentiment, but knowing that it's entirely coming from you and your experiences, and nothing to do with me and my own personality except for the one thing we have somewhat in common, means that your comment is to me merely a representation of you and what you stand for. Which is great and beautiful, but it doesn't cross the bridge of being a meaningful comment on my end. That's actually the exact prob…

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Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#617

From my perspective, the issue is quite simple: progress optimizes everything other than the cost of human labor. Socialization, as defined today, inherently requires human labor, and thus falls under the Baumol effect. The 'loneliness epidemic' is merely the result of weakening demand, owing to a slew of low-cost alternatives. Thus, we end up with two options, 1. automate the social experience 2. accept that the com…

Well said; and i think you are right. How did you come to develop this sort of perspective? What did you read/study that led you to this pov?

It's branched from how I think about TFR. To merge,

- the common sentiment of "child raising is too expensive"

- the reality that wealth has drastically gone up

I think: okay, it must feel expensive for some reason. Probably because the work involved, despite not changing too much in an absolute sense, is relatively much pricier compared to all modern cheap sources of happiness.

Then, this notion of the cost-of-fun is easily transferred to general socialization & the loneliness problem.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#618

I'm not lonely, but occasionally wish I had some meaningful friendships. Most people who want to be my "friend" just want something from me -- a job, help them move, buy their dumb products, watch their kids, drive them to the airport, whatever else they want to dump on me. I get that comes with friendships, but people go from zero to super favors in 2.1 seconds these days. Seems too burdensome, so I typically tell p…

Damn. There are some things here that resonated with me and some that don’t. I had a time of my life where I just felt like I didn’t vibe with my ex’s friends. We’d go to parties and these people would feel so shallow. Having grown up poor around a bunch of perpetually rich people made me feel different. You also said that the world is burning, and it is to some defree. But it’s also filled with so many kind and amaz…

Thanks for the reply. I've accepted reality, so not really hurting.

I've got a wife, kids, 2 dogs, and more work than I can possibly do. I have plenty to do, but I lean toward Nihilistic thoughts like what is the point of all of this. I'm religious and have faith that my life has meaning, but sometimes it's hard to see it.

Personally, I've found the most effective way to cope is just to accept things as they are and keep myself busy. The world is constantly saying that happiness is right around the corner if you are just smarter, richer, or better looking. Realizing that it's not true and finding contentment is the way to go.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#619
post #438

You have to be the one who creates things to do. Really, that’s it. You want to play D&D together, you host and DM. You want to just hang out, you reach out and propose what you’re doing. You want more purposeful and meaningful time, join a volunteer group you vibe with. Even if it’s meeting for coffee. You have to be the one who reaches out. You have to do it on a regular cadence. If, like me, you don’t have little…

I'm just going to be a "me too" but I think you nailed it. It's just hard for some people to do. It's sort of like losing weight: the formula is easy, but the doing is hard.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#620

You can't. It is up to them to change. They won't change, and this "loneliness epidemic" is starting to become really fucking annoying. It is almost a grift now to shit on tech by mids. These people don't want to go outside or engage with other people. It is like people who are drug/alcohol/tobacco/gambling/sex/etc addicts. It is up to the individual to change. How is it anyone else's responsibility? I surveyed a bun…

- indian here, i am going to take that a bit offensively.

- millions of indians go outside daily and are doing just fine.

- social media algorithms are rigged against india for reasons i do not understand or comprehend.

- you can easily review this by comparing the amount of engagement on youtube to positive stuff about india vs negative stuff.

- while our country is most certainly not perfect and has problems of its own, problems are not the only thing our country has

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