Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

news.ycombinator.com

611–620 of 704 posts

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#611
post #83

Learning that some folks can produce so much value with crappy code. I've seen entire teams burn so much money by overcomplicating projects. Bikesheding about how to implement DDD, Hexagonal Architecture, design patterns, complex queues that would maybe one day be required if the company scaled 1000x, unnecessary eventual consistency that required so much machinery and man hours to keep data integrity under control.…

I always find these discussions interesting.

I've been working for the same company 10 years. When we built project A, I was surrounded by people who had built the same product for the past 20 years together. As a younger dev, I deferred to them as they were much older and had done this before. You would probably admire them. They pumped out code and delivered immense value. We had no over-engineering because there was no upfront design discussions. When we needed to use some service, we just wrote that directly in our normal framework code instead of using some over engineered abstraction. That's usually highly praised here on HN.

Years later, that project became an extreme maintenance burden. There is no separation of business code from framework code, so the first major framework migration took... years. When they completed the framework migration it was already 2 versions out of date. Subsequent upgrades were faster and given more priority, but still took multiple months. Onboarding new clients took whole teams. The code is fragile, lacks test, etc. The app is classic "spaghetti code". But they sure got to production quick!

Around 2.5 years ago, I was tasked with building project B. There was no development team. I worked with two domain experts, but ultimately the development of the product was in my hands. This is a product that will live on for at least another 10 years and will likely overtake our core product in revenue. There is no one to blame, but myself, if in 5-10 years this app becomes another unmaintainable mess. If you're in this position, what do you do? For me, all I could do is draw on my experience to try to avoid the mistakes I've seen made in the past. We made a lot of mistakes in project A, but I knew a big one was tying our business code, the core of our business, to the particular flavor of web framework that happened to be popular at the time the project started. How do you avoid that? Well, "Hexagonal architecture" sounds like a big scary buzzword, but it's a damn simple pattern that solves that elegantly. When we started, I basically received an indirect mandate that we use the same framework as project A. After we had written ~25k LOC, I had enough and we dropped that legacy framework and migrated to something much better. And we didn't have to change a single line of our business code. Our new framework allows us to iterate much faster than legacy framework. 2.5 years in and our code looks as clean as that initial POC I built. Hexagonal was a small bit of the initial architecture I did. I only point it out here as a counter example. But all the little things I've done which are considered "architecture" have paid off years down the road.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#612
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya that would be my ideal next place, unfortunately it's also an economic downtown in Canada, so I'm sort of doing the latter part of your comment and throwing DMs and my resume out whenever something comes up. Honestly I'm thankful that I've had the time off, and because I expect any given job won't last long, I save my money quite aggressively. Eventually something turns up.

Yeah, exactly. I was blessed with inexpensive tastes, so I find it easy to live well below my means. Plus, one lucky break with some early equity goes a long way. It's not the right game for everyone, but it's totally viable once you get the hang of its rules. And many of us find they're a better fit than the normal rules ever were.

I really wouldn't go so far as to say it's "viable" for me, as much as it's had it's benefits and sometimes severe drawbacks. For example, I will literally run out of money again if something doesn't come around soonish, and that's not a good place to be. I have no upward or horizontal mobility, no true dependents, no investments. I can however occasionally go on a trip if I'm not in such a risky position, say within a few months out of a job, and I've had more free time than most, but I really just have living expenses. It's good to take whatever positives there are though, because I absolutely do not think if I'd made other decisions things would be different, or that my personality would magically shift into being a perfect corporate drone, nor would I want that.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#613

Meeting less competent people be extremely successful in life compare to the more competent folks. Through my life, I have seen people less curious, less innovative, no passion to learn, not interested in working hard, but are good at gaming the system excel and succeed. They become rich, financially independent, have great success. While people much smarter than me, more curious and innovative fail again and again t…

depends on what society you are from, in America usually people who have a lot of knowledge and are innovative and work hard can succeed. If you come from a corrupt third world country then yea, the only thing that has value is power, nepotism etc...

> in America usually people who have a lot of knowledge and are innovative and work hard can succeed.

Maybe in the olden days. Not so sure the American dream is alive anymore.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#614
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd think that he beat me at one thing by neglecting another, but nope, the guy was excelling in every category. This is literally impossible. A person cannot be Einstein and Picasso at the same time. A person cannot be Steve Jobs and Pope Francis at the same time. We all have limited time in life, and it is only possible to excel in one thing by focusing on it and, as a result, not focusing on something else. Th…

Person A spends their 8 hours playing sports, reading books and socialising Person B spends their 8 hours only playing video games I would expect Person A to be better than Person B in every notable category, except for video game skill.

Not necessarily. Person A might naturally be more talented than B at video games. And person B might naturally be more talented at playing sports or reading books or socialising. The only difference is that they don't notice it because they don't do those things.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#615
I didn't learn to type properly until I was in grad school in my 40s, though I had been a data person and did some web programming for years. Also I got through 3+ decades of being a gigging musician who recorded and did live sound before I learned another truly transformative skill - how to coil cables so they won't knot, and are easy to uncoil.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#616
It's a weirdly general answer, but I'd say it's when I not only can't replicate something in a field I consider myself good at, but have no absolutely no idea how it works in the first place.

Usually, that provides a nice reality check that no, I'm not anywhere near as good at this hobby/type of work that I thought I was, and a great incentive to learn more about what I'm missing there.

That's always the most humbling thing to me. That not only are there some things that I have no idea how to do, but that I literally don't know the thought process or reasoning behind how those things work in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#617
Years ago when I was around 12 or so, I learned that people were not great at finding things on the internet and would buy whatever in their top couple results in a search engine.

I also learned about the buyer address for billing and delivery address feature for shipping things now known as drop shipping or re-selling.

I needed a computer so I sold quite a few hard drives and CPUs using eBay and supplies through another companies website. Once I received the money, I then purchased the item with my debit card I was given for “learning a checking/savings account”. I made enough for a computer and stopped. The humbling moment was a few years later when I realized I should have made that into a business. All of it was pre-internet taxation days too.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#618
post #601
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the 'fast' can be optional. But sometimes you already have something that works, is correct and fast, but you still want to simplify: for example, when understanding _why_ that code is correct is too annoyingly complicated to explain and understand.

I deeply hate this modern attitude. It’s factually correct due to hardware and compilers (néé transpilers) offering so much headroom, but part of me cries when you compare modern hardware utilization compared to how optimized-to-the-gills late generation PS2 games were.

I would argue that the fast part isn't optional for web apps (where "transpiling"), but it can be in many other instances.

I write a lot of data-pipeline code in Python that mostly runs once a day. Does it matter if it takes an hour to run instead of five minutes? Not really, as long as it's ready to go for the next run.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more of a humbling moment for the CEO. They just demo'd something without both conferring with the devs and doing a practice-run themselves?

The sledge hammer to the cyber truck. Given that everyone knows that demos have a nasty habit of going wrong, what kind of madman tries something without testing it first?

The sledge hammer was fine, it was the giant steel ball that was the issue. And it was rehearsed many, many times - the issue was that the window was slightly rolled down during the demo, making the window lose a lot of its rigidity. And was sort of a moot point anyway since the production version didn't wind up having the same "armored glass" that the prototype did.

Re: Ask HN: What was your most humbling learning moment?

#620
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being great only matters if you need external validation. I want a life I appreciate. If there’s anything to win it’s the game of having a good time. All of the suffering people impose on themselves, on their children, on their society, to be great and envied is wasted. Be successful as a means to be happy and have excess to share with others.

> Being great only matters if you need external validation. Humans are social creatures. Seeking external validation is, to a certain degree, normal and healthy.

Sure. It’s good to be approved of. But you can ease things for yourself by finding people that approve of the version of you that you enjoy being.
Post reply on HN