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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#611

Post by dchapp »

egypturnash wrote: post #254
ConfessionTime wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting the number of people who see this as a problem that needs to be fixed. Since this specific comment is near the top, I might as well address that here. Why should I work more? How will that improve my life? My self-worth is derived from what I do outside of work to the extent that I don't prioritize professional validation. The primary reason I work is for money. I make enough money that I can live a…

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied, “only a little while.” The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The M…

Exactly one of the characters in that story can weather disasters.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#612

Post by datavirtue »

wonderwonder wrote: post #325
notJim wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... In fact, this is so common that I can name the exact people at several jobs I've had. And I could mention them to my coworkers and they'd know exactly what these people's reputation are. Our feeling toward them is a mix of being impressed and being embarrassed. Impressed because there's something to be said for someone who works the system to their adv…

"Embarrassed because it's hard to understand how they couldn't be more ambitious at work" If everyone was aggressive at work, there are still only a limited number of promotions available. Why cram at work for something that reality dictates is unobtainable for most. "it's not that companies are that great at rewarding getting things done (sometimes they are…), but it's that getting something cool done is rewarding i…

This guy gets it. Those might be the smart employees, the ones getting a better deal.

I make plenty of money, I don't need any "promotions." I leave the glorious cool stuff to the kids who are still on the treadmill (and don't mind going down some AWS rabbit shit hole).

Getting promoted is not going to make me happy. It is likely to make my life worse. Management often doesn't know what to do with me. I am productive with relevant skills, offer no drama (except for scoffing at yearly evals), and I don't need any carrots, nor do I want their job.

The only thing they can offer me is a good team and meaningful work--which is usually outside of their grasp.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#613

Post by BLKNSLVR »

I find I feel like I can get a weeks worth of work done in half-a-day once my subconscious has spent processing in the background whilst consciously feeling like I was procrastinating.

Whether this is a 'local minimum' I've fallen into, or this is just how I work my magic, I'm not sure, but it's worked for me for a while now, so I have no reason to question it.

I have a middling career, and I'm singularly unambitious (I want to do well at what I'm doing, without much thought to what my be my next step) somewhat because I've been very-low-level management and it very-high-level attempted to suck my soul out through my intestines.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#614

Post by rpearl »

dennisy wrote: post #542
ConfessionTime wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However! I will say that this way of working and living comes with some significant hazard to your mental health. Doing something you don't like, care about, or believe in for decades long periods of time can really mess with your sense of self worth and happiness in life. You only have one life, do something with it that is satisfying. Get out of the rat race. This is where my comment about remote work comes into p…

> I can't imagine ever returning to an office in which there is more pressure to spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of my computer. But this is what you are paid for. Do you not feel that this is what you should be doing in the time you are contracted to work?

A software engineer is not paid to sit in front of a computer and that's only a small slice of the work.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#615

Post by faebi »

oneepic wrote: post #246

I have to confess, it really, really makes me pissed when other people on the team aren't putting forth the same effort. I'd say I work 40 hours a week at least, counting real actual work, and I'm on a project right now where I think the other person is dragging their feet and making almost zero progress, not communicating, not asking for help, etc. A large part of that is because this person is a little more junior,…

I am in a similar position but with multiple coworkers. 1/3 of the team works hard and effective, 1/3 standard and 1/3 barely works without delivering value. At the same time I am having a pretty hard time seeing 1/3 earning the same as I do while doing nearly nothing. It really annoys me on a regular basis and I don‘t think it‘s a healthy behavior either. Sometimes I wonder if they should get fired or if I undersell myself.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#616

Post by pugworthy »

ctvo wrote: post #589

I run into people like you in the field sometimes. Unless you're actively hindering my efforts at delivering something, I ignore you. If you're assigned a critical task, and you block us, I'll bring it up to stakeholders privately to ensure they understand what you're doing. Sometimes this results in you being fired, most of the time, you just get assigned less important work. I find people like you unpleasant to be…

> I find people like you unpleasant to be around because I value competency in my peers, so I tend to ignore you socially too, but outside of that I have no opinion on your choices.

I think you have to be really careful about this. Sometimes people's work behavior is not a direct, "FU this is me and I'm proud of it!" attitude. Sometimes it's a reflection on depression, personal issues you don't know about, and even someone just being lost because they know they don't know something, but don't know what they don't know.

Sometimes the best thing is for you to directly engage with them. You might learn a few things you didn't realize.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#617

Post by Mandatum »

readme wrote: post #579

> Then I successfully bullshit my way through our next stand-up to hide my lack of production. Just because no one says anything doesn't mean no one notices you're bullshitting. You're riding a wave right now, the demand for tech workers is unprecedented. For every person who has your work ethic there is a dev on your team picking up the slack. Now here's what I'll leave you with: being a less talented developer who…

> If you want to feel good about your life's work in your final moments it might be time to make a change

I've never considered I might be thinking about shitty CRUD operations I wrote for some no-name project that's probably been blown away by now on my deathbed..

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#618

Post by loeg »

DarrenDev wrote: post #93

58 minutes after posting, your post has 134 points and sits at the top of Ask HN. I think that answers your question a lot more clearly than the comments themselves. What you've said is clearly resonating with a lot of readers, even if they may not say so in the comments.

People upvote interesting posts; they don't have to agree with OP's premise to find the discussion interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#619

Post by brushfoot »

Zvez wrote: post #566

I'm shocked how many support or at least 'it is ok' comments here, so I won't go to tell my opinion about OP or if this is acceptable in general. Instead just my personal answer. Yeah, I lie about how much time I put to work, when I for some reason decided to put some of my personal time to solve some problem, or improve something, or simply experimenting. I'm not proud of it, but it happens. Anyway, I never was in a…

For what it's worth, I'm from a Western country (the U.S.) and I don't find it acceptable. These threads are always disheartening to me. I think you're right that we don't always see it because we associate with like-minded people.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#620

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #18

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

We're like commissioned workers of patrons who can't program. They need us to keep things going for them, but they only need that magic really a couple times a week. Maybe for like 2 - 10 hours.

We're paid to be present, not to constantly churn output.

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