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Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

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Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#601

Post by klelatti »

Leherenn wrote: post #148
foobarbaz33 wrote: post #119

> if I'm missing on any new developments since 2015 Yes, you missed something huge. Apple Silicon M1 or nothing. It's just too good. Low power consumption allows the laptop to actually be used as a laptop. The power use-to-performance ratio is unmatched by anything on the market. Apple is breaking us free from decades of stagnation on the hardware front. Nothing else on the market comes close. I expect this to change…

Is ARM really the reason the M1 is so much better than the current x86 CPUs? If you have a look at the competition (Qualcomm), it sounds to me that it's Apple expertise at designing a SoC and using a more advanced node that makes it such a good CPU, not really the architecture. Said another way, I highly doubt we will see a non-Apple ARM CPU outclass the x86 competition in such a way anytime soon, so saying "never x8…

Agreed that architecture is only a (possibly small) part but Arm’s business model and the other things that Arm brings to the table are also relevant. For example the small / large core approach that Apple uses hasn’t previously been an x86 feature (although clearly that is changing).

Also non Apple Arm CPUs do outclass x86 in a huge segment of the cpu marketplace - on smartphones and tablets.

I’d don’t think that anyone previously has thrown the amount of cash at laptop / desktop / server Arm designs that Intel spends on x86 designs - we are now seeing a number of firms having a serious go (AWS / Ampere / Qualcomm / Nvidia possibly) so with Intel fighting back on its process issues it will be an interesting few years!

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#602

Post by Zitrax »

eertami wrote: post #442
bradleyjg wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never used a mac until my current job starting three years ago. I don’t think I could go back to random problems requiring me to reinstall driver or futz around with registry keys (never mind recompile the kernel). I have better things to do with my time at this point in my life.

Anecdotal counterpoint, but as someone who had to use a MBP for work, OSX has given me way more random problems. Installing a system update on an MBP still gives me anxiety and I would avoid it for as long as possible, since I never managed to do one without _something_ inexplicably breaking.

Same here, got a MBP from my work 2 years ago. I have had more issues with it than other non mac laptops in the past, both OS and hardware issues. Battery expanding, display issues, system processes using 100% cpu until I reboot as some examples.

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#603

Post by zeckalpha »

grandpoobah wrote: post #46
hiisukun wrote: post #27

1. S3 Standby/suspend support. If your laptop supports that, you can close the lid and it will power ~everything except the RAM down (sometimes a USB port still charges). In 'new' laptops, including almost everything Tiger lake and Intel, S3 is being phased out for Microsoft's "Modern Standby", known as S0ix (or sometimes InstantGo). This is much more like a mobile phone, where it stays on but attempts to use as litt…

Was going to post the same thing (albeit far more poorly explained). Isn't Microsoft embarrassed about this? This has been an issue for my last two laptops over the last 5 years. How is it acceptable for this problem to still exist? My Lenovo supports S3 sleep, but I didn't discover it until probably a year into having bought it, so at that point my battery's ability to hold charge had already been sufficiently degra…

VS for Mac: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/visual-studio-20...

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#604

Post by fsflover »

emptysongglass wrote: post #576
fsflover wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite happy with my Librem 15, no problems. AFAIK they fixed their hinge in the latest model. Which problems did you have with the chargers? Never heard about that on their forums.

My charger just stopped working one day on the first 13 v2. The touchpad would also just not accept input sometimes. Also, and this one I had forgotten: sometimes it would just experience sudden power loss. Returning the damn thing for a warranty repair was a nightmare. Finally they just shipped me a new 13 v3 which had a broken hinge. You may just be lucky. The failure rates of Librems are well documented across the…

Librems 13 were indeed known to have the hinge problem, not so much Librems 15. Another commenter says Librem 14 is great: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28887681

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#605

Post by Oddskar »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #598
Oddskar wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Linux, but i have to be honest: Windows/Linux laptops can't compete in 2021 with the Apple M1. Maybe some day they will catch up. Mostly because all the flagship laptops are stubbornly (or rather being strong-armed into) sticking with Intel.

> Mostly because all the flagship laptops are stubbornly (or rather being strong-armed into) sticking with Intel. Intel sold StongARM (and XScale) along time ago. They might be in a much different place now if they didn’t.

Is this being sarcastic?

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#606

Post by jkepler »

jrm4 wrote: post #569
hiisukun wrote: post #27

1. S3 Standby/suspend support. If your laptop supports that, you can close the lid and it will power ~everything except the RAM down (sometimes a USB port still charges). In 'new' laptops, including almost everything Tiger lake and Intel, S3 is being phased out for Microsoft's "Modern Standby", known as S0ix (or sometimes InstantGo). This is much more like a mobile phone, where it stays on but attempts to use as litt…

Bahahaha. Sorry, long time Linux user here. I just presumed the sucky state of this sort of thing was SOLELY due to my insistence on using Linux. Relatedly; seriously - besides the obvious "mindshare" and so on, and I suppose "mostly for the people here;" Macs I get, but why do people still use Windows?

Also a longtime Linux user here, and I have the same question: why do people keep using Windows? Everything I hear about it sounds superb frustrating, while for me, Debian stable has been rock-solid for me for years.

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#607

Post by deckard1 »

microtonal wrote: post #160
bestouff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ! Support forums from all brands (big ones like Dell or Lenovo, but also niche brands like Framework) are plagued with requests from unhappy users with their laptop dying in their bag. All because of the Modern Suspend feature. Let's hope AMD mobile processors will work better, and that we'll be able to find decent laptops using them.

I had an AMD Ryzen ThinkPad. It has all the same issues with modern sleep. The solution is to enable S3 sleep in the firmware. Unfortunately, even in S3 sleep, the battery would drain in a day. I am now back to a MacBook Air (M1) and sleep works perfectly. Life is to short to deal with the terrible state of sleep on Windows/Linux laptops.

I'm fairly certain that your Macbook is actually hibernating, and not merely suspending. This seems to be the case with my 2015 Macbook. Suspend alone will drain your battery.

I have a Ryzen ThinkPad p14s with Linux. What you do is turn on S3 mode (they call it "Linux") in BIOS as you did. Then in /etc/systemd/sleep.conf you enable AllowSuspendThenHibernate. You can adjust the time. I have mine set to 30 minutes. I also have suspend set when the laptop lid closes. Which means when I close the laptop, it suspends for 30 minutes. If I open before 30 minutes, it resumes right away. If not, it hibernates. The battery will last for practically days if you configure it this way.

You have to configure Linux to hibernate and this will depend on your setup. Just know that it is possible to use LUKS encryption and hibernate to a file (or partition).

Another factor with my Macbook is that it seems to automatically resume from hibernate in the morning. Not sure what it's doing. Maybe it's keeping track of when I typically open my laptop. But you can get this same behavior on Linux with rtcwake. If using LUKS though, you'll probably need to use a keyfile rather than a passphrase for this to work. It would be neat if someone wrote a program that could monitor the time you open the laptop and automatically adjust the rtc wakeup times based on historical data.

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#609

Post by jkepler »

thinkingemote wrote: post #130
gremIin wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is with this knee-jerk defense of Apple every time someone suggests holding them to a higher consumer standard? You can sell good products while still embracing open technologies.

It's protection of one's investment. One doesn't just buy a laptop from Apple but one invests in all the devices, apps, ecosystem and brand. It's why past apple users express so much hurt when the company crosses a line. To leave or even to criticise hurts psychologicaly and financially. Thus it is logical to protect ones investment and defend the brand on social media. This extends to many brands of course for examp…

How is a laptop an investment? Its a tool one uses, but it doesn't generate a return, properly speaking. Or would you say that all tools are investments?

Re: Ask HN: What does one look for in a laptop these days?

#610

Post by sharikous »

Leherenn wrote: post #148
foobarbaz33 wrote: post #119

> if I'm missing on any new developments since 2015 Yes, you missed something huge. Apple Silicon M1 or nothing. It's just too good. Low power consumption allows the laptop to actually be used as a laptop. The power use-to-performance ratio is unmatched by anything on the market. Apple is breaking us free from decades of stagnation on the hardware front. Nothing else on the market comes close. I expect this to change…

Is ARM really the reason the M1 is so much better than the current x86 CPUs? If you have a look at the competition (Qualcomm), it sounds to me that it's Apple expertise at designing a SoC and using a more advanced node that makes it such a good CPU, not really the architecture. Said another way, I highly doubt we will see a non-Apple ARM CPU outclass the x86 competition in such a way anytime soon, so saying "never x8…

ARM is not a magic bullet but the M1 stems from the trend of phone processors growing up to be competitive in the PC market.

Since almost (all?) mobile phones use ARM I can see a similar process of adapting other ARM processors to the PC market.

But of course Apple is so far ahead that we really don't know wether and when there will be a competitive alternative, so it may as well be a streamlined x64, or a new ISA, sure.

It seems to all depend on some very experienced CPU design teams and it seems that actually Apple lost some of them in the last year, I would track these news to get a better model of predicting the future than the ARM/x64 divide.

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