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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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601–610 of 642 posts

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#601
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that one reason we use chemicals to "enhance" our brains is because we are living in ways we aren't intended to live? Human beings aren't made to sit in front of a screen for 16 hours a day. We probably shouldn't be as isolated as we can get, we shouldn't be living the way we live (in crowded cities, say, disconnected from family or community, doing one thing--coding, for example--for 10 hours at a time,…

I don't think this type of thinking is very productive - it's a romanticization of an ancestral past. The ancestral environment is useful for context for why things are the way they are, but it tells us nothing about the future. We can point back to the habits and lifestyles of the past and imagine cargo-culting their behavior will grant us the outcomes we prefer, but there's no understanding in it. Various communiti…

I think it depends on exactly how the question is framed, yes.

It's very useful to recognize when we aren't 'made' for something, because it implies we can get benefits from either avoiding it or supplementing our performance at the task. When we are "made for" a task, like walking for long periods or throwing objects with good aim, it's tough to improve on human baseline. (At least, not without serious side effects. There's a reason drugs to boost strength and physical endurance tend to be risky.)

But that distinction has to be kept separate from a values judgement. As I mentioned in another comment, "reading a good book" is something I'm not evolved to do. That might mean I should be prepared for challenges with the task (e.g. back pain if I sit for too long), but it's unrelated to whether I want to keep doing it.

The 'ancestral environment' stuff is likely to be easy or optimized-for, but that's not the same as being a better way to live.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#602
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is the thinking that the espresso takes 15 minutes to kick in?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Here's an article that gives a gloss as well as links to more detailed research: https://www.vox.com/2014/8/28/6074177/coffee-naps-caffeine-s... I was always surprised when I found myself suddenly so sleepy after a shot of espresso in the afternoon. It was nice to find that there's science backing it up.

Woah, thanks for this. I knew the trick, but I always assumed it was just about sleeping until the caffeine blocked out adenosine so you woke up not-tired. Interesting to see there's a deeper mechanism in play.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't be lumping all "drugs" together. Of course technically every drug has a downside, for some it's not significant. Basically food is just a drug too, except by definition.

Addictive drugs are addictive drugs. If you spend enough time around people who abuse substances, you will see the common threads among them when it comes to how they view their use. You could replace 'drugs' in my post above with 'alcohol', 'excessive exercise' or 'binge eating' and it would still hold true.

Perhaps I am just a type-a person but I would create separate devastation categories for binge eating and smoking methamphetamine.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as somebody diagnosed with adhd at older age and that is taking ritalin (legally) i would say it helps a lot. but im taking less then prescribed because i dont want to be dependent on it. i always wondered it the effect is stronger for somebody without adhd.

> i always wondered it the effect is stronger for somebody without adhd i've wondered this myself. i often hear people say stuff like "people with real adhd can't get high from stims", but i suspect that some of this is just that people want to distance their legitimate use from those tweakers over there. if there's any truth to it, i'd bet it comes down to the way the drug is used. when you take an extended release…

I think it’s the same for any drug that has the potential for abuse but is medicinal, such as opiates or cannabis.

When you have to take it day in, day out just to feel more normal, the dosage is either too low for pleasurable effects or tolerance negates them, and the side effects start to wear on you. Since it’s something you’re legitimately doing just to feel normal, but you inadvertently suffer from some of the drawbacks of drug addiction, ultimately you'd rather not be doing it.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was much younger I was exposed to a variety of different drug users. Everything you said is 100% spot on with anyone that abused drugs. I've come to learn that there a few different kinds of drug users. The first are the users who have not yet had to face the reality of drugs or how drugs affect them personally, even if they are suffering consequences from use. The mental gymnastics at play serve to protect an…

It's rare but there are also people who successfully manage their drug use minimizing harmful side effects and getting by just fine.

I addressed this group in my OP:

> Another type stays rational about drugs, despite how easy it is to let the honeymoon period trick them into believing that there are only positives and no downsides. They don't tend to lean on the psychological defenses mentioned above. They also tend not to abuse drugs chronically or end up dependent.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#606
post #598

so, you can browse my comment history [0] for more detail, but here's the gist: - heroin addict for ~20 years, smoking and iv injecting, plus crack cocaine - senior software engineer at startup, contributing to open source and speaking at conferences and meetups - now trying to quit, using methadone replacement provided by uk national health service my work situation helped by very supportive boss who knows about my…

thanks, I'd like to email you to the address in your profile, ok?

no problem...

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#607
post #583
post #579

I'm an ex-scientist and software engineer at a major tech company. I consume cannabis and have for several decades, on a regular basis. I find it helps tremendously when dealing with long, tedious work (common in software engineering) as well as being helpful with creativity. There are positives and negatives; cannabis affects the memory, ability to concentrate and think, and mood. One time, my health provider pushed…

Are you aware of others in your company or at other companies that also use cannabis as much as you? Or are you aware of people using narcotics/amphetamines?

Based on my understanding of the Bay Area, where I've worked, my usage is definitely more frequent and in larger dosages than 99% of employed individuals, but many people consume cannabis on a semi-regular basis. Dunno about the narcotics or amphetamines, it's not something I hear about regularly.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#608
post #257
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly ceasing stimulants does not involve nearly as acute or prolonged a withdrawal as opiates. There's no risk of seizures like there is with benzos. Your dopamine receptors will reset their tolerance much quicker than the 6 months I see cited throughout this thread. I have stopped stimulants many times with no more than a 1 week (maybe 10 day max) period of physical dependence symptoms. When people experienced p…

I'm wondering if it's life conditions in many cases that is part of the reason for using in the first place? Yes, needing to work long hours is very real, but maybe the drugs also help to avoid life conditions that we don't want to deal with...

I see "helps me work" used pretty often as a rationalization for drug use that's actually a coping mechanism.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#609
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly ceasing stimulants does not involve nearly as acute or prolonged a withdrawal as opiates. There's no risk of seizures like there is with benzos. Your dopamine receptors will reset their tolerance much quicker than the 6 months I see cited throughout this thread. I have stopped stimulants many times with no more than a 1 week (maybe 10 day max) period of physical dependence symptoms. When people experienced p…

> I think it is usually due to being forced to confront life conditions that were being avoided. This certainly may be part of it. However, there are long-term changes in the brain that occur with chronic stimulant use/abuse. I'm looking for the correct number, but I believe it takes about 24 months for the brain to revert to its normal state after stimulant cessation.

"changes in the brain" is too vague to be useful.

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) is supposedly a thing that can last months, but it's just an observation of a collection of symptoms - no analysis of a specific mechanism causing it that I have seen.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#610

I’m not convinced that productivity is a virtue for software engineers. I have production code running untouched for over 8 years that was produced in the laziest straight forward way as possible, simply because I didn’t feel like working so hard. Indeed, I delayed writing any code until I came up with an idea of the minimum amount of code I could get away with, then I minimized that some more. I’ve eliminated entire…

Using stimulants like Adderall is not mutually exclusive with this ideal.

I've known engineers who do exactly this. They plan out what they're working on minimally and architect it out in the best and most simple way possible. When it comes time to write code, they take their prescribed stimulants and they work.

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