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Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

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Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#61

Post by spoon16 »

cesarbs wrote: post #9
spoon16 wrote: post #4

I worked in two different groups while I was at Netflix. I loved it. The engineers on their team are consistently good and there is low tolerance for under performers. They take their culture seriously and their leadership is very strong. I'd be happy to work for them again in the future. Re: expectations about excess work. It's your own responsibility to set expectations about what you can get done and how quickly y…

> low tolerance for under performers I panic whenever I read stuff like this. What is an under performer? How do I know if I'm one? How can it be expected that everyone in an environment is a spectacular code ninja that does utterly awesome stuff all the time?

If you are an under performer and you don't know your management is failing you badly. I had three different managers while I was at Netflix (I switched teams once). 2 were great, 1 underperformed. The underperforming manager was not at Netflix for very long, which I appreciated.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#62

Post by sokoloff »

kethinov wrote: post #54
sokoloff wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now understand your point, and I thank you for that. It was escaping me, because I so strongly hold the opposing point of view. Thank you for explaining it. My view is that with an ESPP policy, Netflix helps align employee incentives with investor (and executive) incentives, and that makes those employees more likely to act as shareholders and take a pro-company mindset. It serves a legitimate purpose and is a hell…

How is paying people who are already wealthy more than people who are poor helping the poor?

You're focusing on the wrong side (IMO). Paying poor people a bonus on top of money they save is helping the poor, mathematically and psychologically.

I won't deny that rich can take more advantage of this program, but the working poor at Netflix also can.

If you allow someone who is poor to save even $200 in an ESPP and give them a 15% bonus on top of that, you both introduce them to stocks as well as give them $30.

True, if someone literally doesn't take any advantage of the program at all, taking it away hasn't hurt them. What I suspect instead happens (from having worked alongside good and hard-working "blue collar" workers) is that Bob figures out that if he just saves a little bit in this program that sounds too good to be true, he gets more money, then he does it and it works, then he tells Charlie and Dave about it (bragging about his maneuver, but also wanting his friends to get in on this), then Charlie tries it, then Dave is convinced, and they tell their two best friends at work, etc.

Don't focus on how much money Chad and Biff are making from this program when considering eliminating it. Worry about the warehouse/call center worker and don't screw them over by killing it just as they're getting started saving.

The warehouse worker or call center worker who started out saving just $200/yr in the program and spending that money on Christmas for his kids is way better off after a few years when he realizes he can start tightening his belt around a few 'little leaks' in his life and the cycle of pure paycheck-to-paycheck starts to get broken. Maybe he gets up to $200/quarter (about $3/workday), then $25/week...

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#63

Post by codeonfire »

cesarbs wrote: post #9
spoon16 wrote: post #4

I worked in two different groups while I was at Netflix. I loved it. The engineers on their team are consistently good and there is low tolerance for under performers. They take their culture seriously and their leadership is very strong. I'd be happy to work for them again in the future. Re: expectations about excess work. It's your own responsibility to set expectations about what you can get done and how quickly y…

> low tolerance for under performers I panic whenever I read stuff like this. What is an under performer? How do I know if I'm one? How can it be expected that everyone in an environment is a spectacular code ninja that does utterly awesome stuff all the time?

Underperforming means whatever your manager wants it to mean. That is why it is bullshit. For instance, after I closed some wide open security holes (0.0.0.0/0 open, no authentication or access control to our $$$ stuff) after several days fair warning the team. My manager called that underperforming because some people don't read their email. I also got hit for doing extra work after hours because it was "not authorized" even though it saved thousands in identifying idle instances. Turns out my manager who recently transplanted from India was just trying to force me to work under another engineer who was still in India. Presumably once that guy had enough manufacture responsibility over here maybe the company would give him a visa.

So shit like this is why so called performance management is bullshit. Performance is not doing what is in the best interest of the team or company. It is whatever is in the best interest for your manager.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#64

Post by manarth »

oldmanjay wrote: post #57
kethinov wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because any company which rewards people with extra money for deferring 100% of their comp for six months is elitist. The vast majority of their staff can't afford that and are therefore paid less for being poorer.

if the intent of the hiring policy is to get elite employees, then being elitist seems like an excellent plan

s/elite/wealthy/

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#65

Post by kethinov »

sokoloff wrote: post #62
kethinov wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is paying people who are already wealthy more than people who are poor helping the poor?

You're focusing on the wrong side (IMO). Paying poor people a bonus on top of money they save is helping the poor, mathematically and psychologically. I won't deny that rich can take more advantage of this program, but the working poor at Netflix also can. If you allow someone who is poor to save even $200 in an ESPP and give them a 15% bonus on top of that, you both introduce them to stocks as well as give them $30.…

I'm not suggesting that such a program should be eliminated. Instead it should be reformed to benefit the majority more fairly rather than disproportionately benefitting those who are already wealthy. If poor employees can only afford to contribute 10% of their salary to ESPP, then everyone should be bound by that same limitation. This is typical at many other companies.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#66

Post by cnp »

eddiezane wrote: post #21
kethinov wrote: post #15

I've known people who've worked at Netflix and have complained about some toxic policies. Some highlights I can recall: Unlimited ESPP rewards already wealthy employees. If you can afford to not take any pay for six months, you basically get a big bonus. I was told there was (and may still be) some kind of stack ranking system. Employees are fired if they're in the bottom x percent of performance reviews, even if the…

I really like Travis CI's take on unlimited vacation time [0]. Probably won't ever catch on in the US though. 0: http://www.paperplanes.de/2014/12/10/from-open-to-minimum-va...

I very much hope that this article gets around more. Unlimited vacation is a very (very) deceptive practice.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#67

Post by CrankyFool »

svachalek wrote: post #56
kethinov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about options, which as you pointed out do indeed carry risk, I'm talking about ESPP. They're different programs.

I don't think there is an ESPP at Netflix.

Take this as authoritative: There's no ESPP at Netflix. I've been here long enough to remember when there was one :)

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#68

Post by CrankyFool »

I've been at Netflix for 2211 days (a little more than six years). Joined as an IT engineer, became an IT manager, became an engineer in the Product Engineering side, then became a manager in the Product Engineering side. At least two of the people who've already responded in this thread report to me.

I wrote my impressions of six years at Netflix here: http://royrapoport.blogspot.com/2015/06/when-youre-having-fu...

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#69

Post by CrankyFool »

hamburglar wrote: post #24
kethinov wrote: post #15

I've known people who've worked at Netflix and have complained about some toxic policies. Some highlights I can recall: Unlimited ESPP rewards already wealthy employees. If you can afford to not take any pay for six months, you basically get a big bonus. I was told there was (and may still be) some kind of stack ranking system. Employees are fired if they're in the bottom x percent of performance reviews, even if the…

I've worked for a company with "unlimited" vacation time, and "Orwellian joke" really is a great way to put it. In addition to everyone being careful not to be the guy who takes too much vacation (oh, except the slackers, of course), the value of an individual vacation day drops in everyone's eyes (no scarcity) and the result is that management develops an attitude that it's more acceptable to veto specific vacation…

You can't just implement "unmetered vacation" and have it all work out -- it has to be part of a set of practices.

For example, at Netflix as a manager I don't "veto" any proposed vacations, because my engineers do not propose vacations -- they tell me what time they're taking off. It's their job to make sure that's not going to be a surprise to anyone covering for them, and it's not my job to check that they've done that work.

As for being careful not to be the guy who takes too much vacation ... putting aside the fact I have people reporting to me who aren't guys, there are people on my team who take two days of vacation a year; there are people on my team who take ~6 weeks of vacation per year. Nobody here seems to care much.

Re: Ask HN: What is it like working at Netflix?

#70

Post by CrankyFool »

diab0lic wrote: post #33
lk145 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate about the kinds of things that constitute a major failure? Also, would you say your experience matches those of people you know on other teams with other managers?

Repeated major failures would be something like regularly failing to deliver or making a critical error multiple times. A pattern of behavior that doesn't fit the culture, NOT a one off mistake. A great example of this would be the engineer who accidentally leaked House of Cards a week early. The only consequence is that a "process" was removed to make doing what he was trying to do easier. I don't think firing this…

Tolerance of failure is different for ICs and Managers, partially because Managers tend to have such an ability to really screw things up in a way that isn't technical and has an impact on a bunch of other people in the company.

The shortest IC tenure I've seen here was the result of being a brilliant jerk (which interviewers did not catch during the interview cycle (and I speak here as one of the people who interviewed this person)). The shortest Manager tenure I've seen here was noticeably shorter than this, and was the result of pissing off your engineers.

I've not seen any IC here screw up on a technical level in such a way as to get fired for a first or even second screwup -- it really takes a pattern. My shortest IC termination was six months from hiring to termination.

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