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Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

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Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#61
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see a commenting site with strong, pseudonymous identity support, to create a greater barrier to the racist and misogynistic trolls who infest the default sub-reddits currently. Some options: 1. Register with a phone number (do some basic checks to avoid Google Voice, Twilio, etc.) 2. Accounts cost $1, payable either through Payal or credit card. Accounts are tied to the payment credentials. 3. Partic…

> 2. Accounts cost $1, payable either through Payal or credit card. Accounts are tied to the payment credentials. is that a good idea? If accounts are paid, then "richer" opinions have bigger impact on the site

I applaud your sentiment, but honestly, if you can afford Internet access, you can afford a one-time $1 (or even $5) sign-up fee.

I'm sure people will come up with some scenario where that's not 100% true, but I think it generally is. And you could probably devise alternate solutions for those exceptions. Some ideas off the top of my head:

1) The sign-up fee could be waived for anybody signing up with a .edu address.

2) Integrate with major library systems, and say the sign-up fee can be waived if you authenticate with a local library, enter your library card number, etc.

3) Offer a refund of the sign-up fee after 6 months of non-troll behavior.

I don't know. But I do think the benefits of having some money on the line and some basic identity verification outweigh the risk of drowning out some voices.

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, let's say 10¢. Everyone with a personal Internet-enabled device can most certainly afford that. You could even refund them the money later, as the goal is to obtain the payment identity -- not the cash.

Not everyone has a way to pay online, especially if you are accepting credit cards.

You can add funds to a PayPal account without a credit card. You can buy a PayPal card with cash or send funds through MoneyGram. There may be a minimum required amount though. I'm not entirely sure of the specifics, but I know, in general, it's possible.

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#63
post #36
post #32

I'm speaking as a bit of an armchair developer here, but I'd be very interested in seeing a more decentralized alternative to Reddit. A user of one Reddit-like site could post on another's through some sort of protocol, perhaps much like email. It would certainly be more complicated than something centralized, but considering Reddit's attitude towards user-generated communities and moderation, I could see it being a…

It could be some kind of a network, perhaps, a network of users. We could call it, "Usenet." All jokes aside, what you're describing has existed for over 30 years.

That's a good point! I guess much of the infrastructure and ideas are already in place. I know little about Usenet apart from some simple research, so perhaps I should take the time to learn more.

Regardless, perhaps Usenet is lacking certain bits of accessibility and convenience that Reddit has? Or, part of me feels that Reddit has a large draw because it's not very difficult to create an account and start engaging. Features such as up/downvoting, badges, and the whole default web interface would make a lot of sense too.

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#64

Reddit's core problem is that they don't make much money, and all the things they might do to make money are things that will piss off the user base. It's the exact same problem that Digg had. And if Reddit experiences the same outcome, I don't know why anyone would rush to replicate that model a 3rd time. Look at the history of 4chan: you can grow a large audience by allowing people to say whatever they want, anonym…

I don't know, if you don't earn enough money, not giving away 10% of your ad revenue would be a good start towards becoming profitable. That sounds cynical, but that's all PR and trying to get people to unblock ads.

http://www.redditblog.com/2014/02/decimating-our-ads-revenue...

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#65
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Reddit seems determined to solve for them.

Unfortunately, Reddit is exporting the dredges of its own population. And thus by subtraction we get addition...

I don't think you can say that about the last two days.

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#66

I really find it fascinating that people are scrambling to make Reddit replacements. First off, A) there's no guarantee the community will ever abandon Reddit, even if yours is better, and B) why are we mimicking what Reddit did, and succeeded greatly at? Of all places, I would think that Hacker News, a community of start-ups, would recognize that you don't often succeed by simply trying to improve on what some other…

What's "the community"? There doesn't seem to be one community that is going to act in unison. Regarding point B, I am not sure that anyone said a replacement has to exactly copy reddit. Arguments aside, I agree with your final sentiment. Something new would be awesome.

I'd like an anonymous Usenet/distributed-server style system that runs on port 80 - like a BitTorrent for discussions where anybody that can put up a web server can run a node.

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#67

I've been toying with making one since I realized Reddit has been devolving into a reactionary, hate filled site. I was thinking about having a gimmick of graph based commenting to prevent the "top post guides discussion" effect. Not sure at how feasible or user friendly that could be.

Someone should make a version of reddit where your upvote/downvote record is what shapes the ordering for you. There should be a global rank and an individual rank that is calculated for each user something like the netflix 5 star system. That way the hateful stuff won't appear unless you upvoted hateful stuff. Liberals and conservatives could both get the content they want going to the same politics forum. It should…

Sounds a little bit similar to this one idea I read about, but am having trouble finding right now (fakeedit before submit: it was https://github.com/neyer/respect ), which was meant to be a system for determining respect and reputation in large groups.

The idea was that each person would select some number of people to state that they trust/respect (fakeedit: this should say respect most of the times I say trust, but I don't feel like replacing all of them atm. mentally substitute the word 'trust' with 'respect') them to some degree (between 0 and 1, or between -1 and 1, but the negative ones were counted as zero until the last step). These would together form a (square) matrix of how much each person has granted 'initial' trust to who. Also each person's statement of who they trust is a vector, and it is normalized to have magnitude 1 (before being used as part of the matrix. This is to defend against attacks from people making extra identities that all trust each other, or things like that)

The idea would then be that people tend to trust people that people they trust, trust, so it would be useful to determine what trust levels there are when including 'indirect' trust. To do this, one adds the matrix to the matrix raised to the second power, plus the matrix raised to the third power, for some number of levels (I think they recommended 3 levels). For each of these, on the last level, one can include the negative values in order to include /distrust/. (But one does not want to include it in earlier levels, otherwise one would end up trusting people that people you distrust, distrust, which probably isn't what you want).

Then to find someone's indirect trust vector you look at the appropriate, uh, I think row, of the resulting matrix.

In addition, there is a measure of how much your 'initial' trust vector aligns with your 'indirect' trust vector, by taking the dot product of the two, (and I think also dividing by the magnitudes of the two vectors). This is sort of a measure of how similar your trust is to that of the people you trust.

....

oh, I think I originally saw it as a blog post, but it looks like it was by neyer and is at https://github.com/neyer/respect

...

So, a roughly analogue thing for using upvotes as the input would I guess be, uh...

To determine the ranking that a given person would see, consider the list of all of a person's upvotes/downvotes (or all in the last 6 months or w/e?) as a vector, and for each person who upvoted or downvoted anything in the thread one is looking at, take the dot product of their voting record vector with one's own voting record, and weigh their votes in the given thread based on that dot product (perhaps adjusted for the magnitude of the voting record vectors in question).

So, if someone is someone who you vote similarly to, their upvotes increase the score you see of posts, and if you tend to vote the opposite way from them, their upvotes would decrease the score you see on posts (the opposite would be the case with downvotes).

However, this seems like it might be computationally expensive? For each thread one looks at, getting each person who voted a single time in that thread, and then get every time they voted in the last time ( or at least all the times that they voted, where you also voted), and compare all of your (recent) votes with theirs.

Another concern that I think people would have would be that it might produce some echo-chamber-ish effects, but I don't know if that would really be a problem.

It might be that if one votes for what makes good arguments for their position, and not just the opinions that one agrees with, then one will vote similarly to other people who do that, and that one will as a result see the posts that people who do that upvoted. But if there is a group who does not do that, and is large, and many of them vote for a post which the people who vote for good reasoning, that they might have an unfortunate influence on how the people who are voting for careful arguments see.

However, it seems like this would be solved by simply downvoting the arguments that do not contribute.

So, depending on how one defines "echo chamber", it seems like the system might only give one an "echo chamber" if one votes in a way that would align with that.

However, for another seemingly reasonable definition of "echo chamber" , I guess it would lead to one (with that being essentially the purpose), but the fact that it does so might not be all that bad (with the people who are "open minded" ending up in an "echo chamber" of other "open minded" people).

It also seems like it could be combined with github:neyer/respect in potentially nice ways. for example, the dot products of similarity of voting seem to be possibly of the same "type" as the respect value in github:neyer/respect , and it seems like maybe they could be added together.

So, one could maybe do something like add the indirect respect value to the similarity of voting value, when weighing how much to consider the different votes, or perhaps one could use the dot products of the voting records as contributing to the initial trust vectors. (In either case, this could be potentially weighted to make one have more weight than the other).

This might make it so that one has more people in the vector of who one initially has respect information about, which could be useful. But I don't know if similarity in voting record is a good thing for that.

And there's still the problem of whether it is too computationally expensive to do for every thread view for every person. Maybe if there was some caching, and some of the stuff didn't get updated all the time? But that seems like it would require a lot of memory.

_____

another potential problem is, if it is to be decentralized, it would I think be difficult to use the above system without making lists of who upvoted/downvoted who entirely public (unless one used something like the recent MIT Enigma thing, but that would make this all even more computationally and memory expensive. /Mayyyybe/ not prohibitively so though? I'm not sure. Practicality isn't my strong suit.)

_____

It is a very interesting problem!

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#68
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a radical turnaround, yeah, I think so. It feels very much like Digg did back in the day. When your userbase is your main asset and you treat them as a given, bad things happen.

Except that reedit had the population before digg crashed. There currently aren't any sizeable alternatives to reedit right now, so the same thing can't possibly happen

It can absolutely happen. The population is primed. The same scenario doesn't have to play out for the end result to be the same.

Digg had some mildly bad policy before their exodus. Reddit policy is failing in a much more dramatic way.

If someone comes out with a viable alternative with, perhaps, one or two notable improvements there is enough froth to push people to a new home.

I personally hope it fragments. The slacktivists and amateur political wonks to one corner with the news, the popular entertainment to the other, and the learners/hobbyists/special interest associations to yet another.

Reddit is the Craigslist of 2015. It is doing too much and it is ready to be picked apart.

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#69

Reddit's core problem is that they don't make much money, and all the things they might do to make money are things that will piss off the user base. It's the exact same problem that Digg had. And if Reddit experiences the same outcome, I don't know why anyone would rush to replicate that model a 3rd time. Look at the history of 4chan: you can grow a large audience by allowing people to say whatever they want, anonym…

This image portraying reddit gold proceeds got posted earlier: http://i.imgur.com/fcfseA4.png

Re: Ask HN: Are you working on a Reddit replacement? What is it?

#70
post #18

My Reddit replacement is Reddit, minus all the people who want to leave because of Reddit closing r/jailbait, r/thefappening, and r/fatpeoplehate. It's a pretty cool site, you should check it out.

That's a remarkably unfair characterization of people who have issues with Reddit.

That's pretty much the reality of it. The other group of users who have issues with Reddit (as we've seen yesterday) are the moderators; in particular the moderators of really large communities. Many others just seem to jump onto the bandwagon.
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