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Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#61
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't underestimate the number of people that do that though.

Until they have a little boat in each colour... and put the printer in the back of the garage to collect dust. CAD skills are essential, and it turns out not as hard as you might have thought!

I do, I've never printed one of those boats, but not everyone's interested.

If you think of it as functional/decorative categorisation first of all, obviously some people will overlap but broadly speaking I think people are interested for one or the other, then within the 'decorative' camp you can go a hell of a lot further without and I think it's more obviously reasonable to not care about designing your own models. You never wanted to design your own toys, but there's appeal in printing things not available on Amazon, unofficial merch for a film you like, or whatever.

Not to say there isn't functional stuff (which I exclusively print) on these sites, but often it won't be quite what I want, so yeah I end up in Fusion. (And typically starting from scratch eventually, because for some reason people don't share source, and working with imported STLs is hellish.)

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#62

Micro-stepping controller chips. Before that, the precision available without gearing and feedback wasn't sufficient. There were systems but they were order of magnitude more complicated and several orders more expensive.

How do you reconcile that claim with the existence of cheap consumer paper printers and hard drives?

"cheap consumer paper printers and hard drives" was not a 1970s thing.

I mean, towards the end of the decade was something like the ImageWriter, which let you do bitmapped graphics, as a row of 9 dots at a time. At https://www.folklore.org/Thunderscan.html?sort=date you can read about the difficulties of turning it into a scanner. (Like, 'We could almost double the speed if we scanned in both directions, but it was hard to get the adjacent scan lines that were scanned in opposite directions to line up properly.')

The LaserWriter wasn't until 1985 or so. My first hard drive, 30 MB, was a present from my parents around 1987.

By the 1996, laser-based 3D printing based on cutting out layers of paper was a thing, available for general use in one of the computing labs in the university building where I worked.

The result smelled like burnt wood.

When I visited a few years later they had switched to some other technology, and one which could be colored, but I forgot what.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#63
The magic ingredients were inexpensive microcontrollers, massively paralleled mosfet transistors (also a product of large scale integrated circuits, since they are actually millions of tiny mosfets working together), and the expiration of several key patents that made it possible to have a commercial explosion around the reprap scene.

The patents expiring was a big deal, since the main patent was on the fused deposition process itself.

The other factor was that normal desktop computers had become powerful enough to run sophisticated 3d modeling programs and make machine motion computations from 3d design files.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#64
You could buy a 3-D printer from Stratasys in 1990, but it cost $178,000! The printing unit was $130,000 and the Silicon Graphics workstation with slicing software to run it was $48,000 more. So the technology was there, but two orders of magnitude too expensive for the consumer market. Patents account for part of the cost, but the computer to control it was also way too expensive, as well as the custom (vs commoditized) mechanical components.

Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=0bqdMvDMv74C&pg=PA32&dq=st...

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#65
post #19

It was invented but protected by patents, so it wasn't until those patents expired that companies and hobbyists started to experiment. Early 3D printers hadn't figured out things like layer adhesion yet so parts tended to be too weak to be very useful. It wasn't clear that this was an area for improvement rather than a fundamental downside of the technology.

It's also easy to underestimate how much computation is involved and how little there was in the 70s. The 3D printer slicers generally require several seconds on modern hardware to calculate their final path. The resulting files are in the several megabytes. My Bambu 3D printer is all but festooned with sensors and is constantly adjusting things, but even the simple ones have more to their firmware than meets the eye…

It's plausible that our current 3-D printing design workflow has grown up in the computationally intensive way that it did because all that computation was available; it's easier to just use a least-common-denominator but bulky file format like STL than to worry about the incompatibilities that would result from using more expressive files.

People have been doing CAD/CAM since the 01950s. Boeing started using CNC in 01958 on IBM 704s, and MIT's Servomechanisms Lab (working with the Aircraft Industries Association: https://web.archive.org/web/20090226211027/http://ied.unipr....) sent out CNC ashtrays to newspaper reporters in 01959: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_numerical_control#C.... Pierre Bézier started writing UNISURF in 01968 at Renault, who was using it to design car bodies by 01975. The Utah Teapot was created in 01975, and it consists of nine Bézier patches; you could print the whole dataset on a business card: https://web.archive.org/web/20141120132346/http://www.sjbake...

The IBM 704 was a vacuum-tube machine that could carry out 12000 floating-point additions per second and had a failure about once every 8 hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_704. The Intel 8008 (not 8088, not 8080, 8008) that came out in 01972 could carry out over 79000 8-bit integer additions per second, which is about the same speed. But much faster computers were already available, such as the PDP-8, in wide use for real-time control, and they very rapidly became much cheaper. Any computation MIT's Servomechanisms Lab could do in the 50s was doable by hobbyists by the 80s.

The reason 3-D printers mostly use stepper motors is that they don't require closed-loop feedback control. 2-D printers from the 01970s used stepper motors for the same reason. They were accessible to hobbyists; in the 80s I had a Heathkit printer someone had built from a kit in the 70s.

If you wanted to print Frank Sinatra's face on a toilet, I think you'd probably want at least a 64×64 heightfield to get a recognizable Sinatra; 256×256 would be better than the line-printer pictures we were doing. 8 bits per heightfield point would be 65 kilobytes, which would fit on the floppy disks we were using at the time. This would have been totally feasible, though digitizing Frank Sinatra would have been a nontrivial project, quite aside from printing him.

So I don't think computation was the limiting factor.

Your "basically banging into the object with a very crude sensor, so there's no generation of geometry at all" is called a "pantograph" and it has been a common way to copy three-dimensional objects and engrave letters with a milling machine for 180 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantograph#Sculpture_and_minti...

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#66
post #25

I think it's probably correct that few people *really* cared until the Reprap project showed a real DIY 3D printer was possible. Early machines were industrial machines with huge price tags, proper linear motion systems, complicated extrusion systems and so on. There is a bit of a mental leap to go from seeing $100k+ machine and dreaming to design something that can be built for $200-500. The problems were: no "refer…

The widespread commercial availability of polylactic acid was also a significant factor. It's one of the few plastics that can reliably print on an open-framed printer. The cheap i3 and Ender clones just wouldn't have taken off if we were stuck with ABS.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AirFryers are even simpler than "sous vide cooking". No reason they couldn't have been invented in the 50s - 60s when kitchens had good electrical supply.

Air fryers are just convection ovens packaged differently.

Sort of, but not really. Air fryers have a much faster rate of airflow than any convection oven, which results in significantly faster and more even cooking. The air fryer really is a meaningful technological development.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#68
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't underestimate the number of people that do that though.

Until they have a little boat in each colour... and put the printer in the back of the garage to collect dust. CAD skills are essential, and it turns out not as hard as you might have thought!

There are several "CAD lite" systems available if you don't actually need dimensional accuracy though. There's a model boom in DnD circles around sharing 3D models, slicing them up, gluing them together, and making your own designs by basically digital kitbashing.

My friend is filling up hard drives with 3D models DMs share.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#69
3DBenchy.stl, the little boat that everyone prints as a benchmark during 3d printer reviews, is 10MB.

A 10MB hard drive cost $3,000-4,000 in 1980.

That's $12k-15k today.

Just opening the .stl file and having it render (USABLY) on screen in high-resolution was probably not economical until the late 1990s-early 2000s.

I am used to computing tasks being human-perception instant. It takes tens of seconds to run repairs on 3d models, which means it would have taken tens of hours to do that same thing, if there was even enough RAM, in the 90s.

Re: Ask HN: Why did consumer 3D printing take so long to be invented?

#70
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also easy to underestimate how much computation is involved and how little there was in the 70s. The 3D printer slicers generally require several seconds on modern hardware to calculate their final path. The resulting files are in the several megabytes. My Bambu 3D printer is all but festooned with sensors and is constantly adjusting things, but even the simple ones have more to their firmware than meets the eye…

AirFryers are even simpler than "sous vide cooking". No reason they couldn't have been invented in the 50s - 60s when kitchens had good electrical supply.

Oh, there's plenty of technologies that were developed and/or popularized decades after the basic tech stack was available to do it, even under the constraints of "commercially viable". That's an interesting study of its own.

3D printing is not one of them.

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