Earlier quoted context omitted.
Age discrimination is real... I'm 35 and I could feel it kicking in big time. It's particularly obvious in my case because my resume is excellent. I don't say that to brag. Speaking to recruiters and prospective employers is cringe because, for most of them, I'm the best developer they'll meet this year but they can't hire me because of my age, race and sexual orientation. Can you guess them? I think also in my case,…
My number one issue is that people can't afford my experience. I often have to dumb down my resume to look like a cog in a machine. Once they hire me, I end up getting 15-50% raises because they don't want me to leave. I don't change jobs often.
Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
61–70 of 89 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#62hiding under a rock with some bourbon until one of my industry friends drags me out kicking and screaming. in all seriousness this industry is very much a word of mouth back door room career, and if you actually try to fight on the job boards you are fighting for positions that were already turned down by top talent against recruiter firms that get a percentage of your salary. i don't work unless it's for a friend an…
You don't know what you're talking about. Companies don't want to pay 3rd party recruiters if they can help it. They will if the position is difficult to fill, but that doesn't mean the job is a bad one.
>i guess it's just old fashioned git gud scrub mentality which is very toxic but what can i do about it?
Nothing. To some extent you do have to try, but you also have to recognize when the problem is outside your control. If the economy implodes, programmers and everyone else will be unemployed regardless of ability, and it may not be possible for them to get hired no matter how much they try to impress employers.
>i wouldn't trust a single person on linkedin if i was in a hiring position so it's really a losing game for everyone.
If you were hiring, you'd just have to interview people from LinkedIn to get "trust"... It's not like anyone expects you to not do that.
Personally, I got most of my jobs from strangers. The people I know have tried to help me get jobs before, but I only got one out of several due to help from a friend. And in that case, I was also a great fit for the job, so it wasn't like nepotism or anything. Maybe this lack of help is because I don't know enough people. I can't help but be suspicious of people who got their jobs due to extraneous considerations.
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#63The older I get, the worse I find the experience. I've had so many poor experiences with recruiters over the years, I think I'm becoming allergic. It's getting harder to pierce through the BS layers with all that new meat on the market, and to make the matter worse, recruiters are even less skilled than they ever were and are often offshored now. It's insane today. When I'm on the hiring side, we can't find candidate…
Age discrimination is real... I'm 35 and I could feel it kicking in big time. It's particularly obvious in my case because my resume is excellent. I don't say that to brag. Speaking to recruiters and prospective employers is cringe because, for most of them, I'm the best developer they'll meet this year but they can't hire me because of my age, race and sexual orientation. Can you guess them? I think also in my case,…
Thirty-five is not when age discrimination kicks in. Age-wise it is the sweet spot. People have had enough time to master their craft, and enough experience to hit the ground running without requiring too much management.
I'd suggest asking people who know you and who have worked with you for their honest assessment of working with you.
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
That works for startups, but most larger companies still won't hire you without an interview, your old collegaues can only refer you to hiring. Very often that's where I screw up. I code computers, not goddamn CoderPads. I run my shit to know if it works, not pretend I'm an interpreter and go through line by line. I cut and paste boilerplate and edit it, not write the boilerplate. Some dude in an interview at a very…
Tech folks often complain about the interview experience but a big part of that experience is created by tech folks. Stuff like what you went through is really to blame in tech culture imo
I WILL stumble because it's not the kind of thing I do. That's the kind of thing a fresh college grad would have memorized and can vomit it to you, maybe without even understanding it. Maybe I'll code you a basic WebRTC conference call app, or train a simple image classifier, or outline an architecture of a massive system for you?
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#65In 2019, I submitted 400+ applications and had only 4 or 5 responses which eventually converted into 1 job. I hear the market was hot then.
In 2021, I submitted around 40 applications with 3 responses where I had 2 interviews, and 1 job offer (through HN whoishiring!) that I accepted; stopping the process with the 3rd company at that point.
Now I've been looking for 2 months, and have so far sent around 15 or so applications with 1 interview that I did not pass.
I understand that networking and referrals are basically key nowadays, but I won't do that based on my values - I think it's unfair to be prioritized based on who you know over skills - this is a hill I will die on (or at least leave my profession over).
Furthermore, I do have a solid work profile (open source, personal site, blog with mostly technical posts, etc.) but am not willing to associate my real life identity. Not because it's inappropriate, but because I value privacy.
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#66Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#67Might do some advertising this year. But mostly word of mouth goes harder than advertising or tendering for work. Legit have gotten consult for gov work bypassing tender just by word of mouth. Do your job well and the work will come. Also get out of conglomo megacorps. Doesnt matter how bright you shine you will still get lost in the sea of shit that they are. Making future work harder to find.
Remember, do a good enough job and other people will sell your services better than you can. Also register a company. Plenty of work where folks don't want you for the whole season just a game or two. It's easier to get thrown small bits and pieces as a contractor than having a company sign up to your services for a year. Get multiple companies throwing small bits and pieces.
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#68I have found 3 jobs (including my current one) by just writing blog posts. People read the blogposts and asked me to join their company.
Could you share your blog?
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#69The older I get, the worse I find the experience. I've had so many poor experiences with recruiters over the years, I think I'm becoming allergic. It's getting harder to pierce through the BS layers with all that new meat on the market, and to make the matter worse, recruiters are even less skilled than they ever were and are often offshored now. It's insane today. When I'm on the hiring side, we can't find candidate…
Age discrimination is real... I'm 35 and I could feel it kicking in big time. It's particularly obvious in my case because my resume is excellent. I don't say that to brag. Speaking to recruiters and prospective employers is cringe because, for most of them, I'm the best developer they'll meet this year but they can't hire me because of my age, race and sexual orientation. Can you guess them? I think also in my case,…
Firstly, it's unlikely that your definition of 'best" and my definition of "best" co-incide. Being a developer encompasses a wide range of skills, technical skills like writing code, writing helpful documentation, interacting with colleagues, architecting for the future, fixing other peoples bugs and more. Unless your priority order is the same as mine, knowing you're good at one thing can get a hindrance.
But leaving that aside, being very good at something (and more importantly knowing it) seldom makes for a good team mate. It comes with an attitude that is less likely to conform with what we do here, less likely to admit when you're wrong, less likely to adapt when we have priorities other than yours.
I'll also point out that your additude to non-developer topics should be one of privacy. I don't really want to know your political views, or your views on crypto, or your brushes with race, ethnicity and so on. If you vered into any of those topics in an interview I'd be alarmed. Even if asked your answers in those areas should be non-committal. And if I did ask about something like crypto (I dont) I'd be looking for a measured answer that showed you can understand both sides of an argument, that you can admit when a position is controversial, that while there are positives there are also negatives and so on.
I say this not to negate you, but perhaps to help you grow in your interviewing skills. It's just fine to be white, libertarian, into crypto, 35 years old, whatever. But interviewing is about getting to know someone, and TMI can be, well, too much.
I get where you're coming from, I really do, and you may be a great developer, but unfortunately you may not be a great employee just yet. And ultimately they're hiring an employee first, a developer second.
Re: Ask HN: How do you go about finding a job?
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Speaking to recruiters and prospective employers is cringe because, for most of them, I'm the best developer they'll meet this year Have you considered instead applying to the kind of organisations that are in the habit of hiring people at your skill level? You should - there will be far more people to learn from, and they're probably in the habit of paying higher wages.
In reality, almost nobody wants to work with intelligent people. Most highly intelligent people don't want to have to compete with other people who may be more intelligent than themselves. Not everyone gets to play the game of 'meritocracy.' You have to be a good actor first and foremost. Especially as you get closer to the big money, the theatrics, double-dealing, sabotage, and dirty games. etc... increase by a huge…
People change jobs for 2 reasons. They leave, or were kicked out. Doing that 15 times in (say) 20 years is not a good look regardless of which camp you fall into.
I'll be honest, we wouldn't hire that. We're looking for 10 years plus, and your track record suggests we're not a good fit for you.
As you are a good developer, and smart to boot, you may find that starting your in gig is your route to long-term satisfaction. I say that as someone who works a lot with self-employed developers (most of them self employed because they'd be terrible employees) and indeed because I'm self-employed (again because I'd be a terrible employee).
I will caution though that being self employed means you take the blame for all your mistakes (and the success or fail every month I'd revealed by the paycheck or lack thereof.)