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Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

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61–70 of 119 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#61
IMHO because over the last two decades we have become so accustomed to lies and brokenness being the standard that it just doesn't matter to most people.

Move fast and break things, and don't pay anyone, but when you do that long enough and burn billions in VC money, you end up rich. Why does that work?

Why can someone like Trump lie and lie and lie and be convicted for felonies and turn up on the worst people list and nobody seems to care?

There are no more consequences. You break software, people don't care if it's the only thing available in the walled garden. You fuck up games, people don't care if you shove a TB worth of updates down their pipes later. You rugpull millions of dollars and walk out unscathed, as long as someone made a profit they will keep praising you.

You used to be actually shunned and driven out of the village for shit behavior. Not anymore. We find all kinds of ways to justify being terrible at stuff.

So along comes tech that costs us barely anything to use and produces meh results most of the time. That's amazing. It used to take thousands of talentless hacks to come up with all that mediocre wrong shit and they all wanted a paycheck. It's progress in a world where nothing means anything anymore.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#62

Personally, I and people I've spoken with use LLMs less and less because of how often they're wrong. The other day I asked ChatGPT about a specific built-in method in Java and it told me that it couldn't do one specific thing. I was already using it in that context so I pushed back and it said "Oh yeah you're right, sorry" I feel like I can't trust anything it says. Mostly I use it to parse things I don't understand…

> I was already using it in that context so I pushed back and it said "Oh yeah you're right, sorry"

Same thing happened to me. I asked for all the Ukrainian noun cases, it listed and described six.

I responded that there are seven. "Oh, right." It then named and described the seventh.

That's no better than me taking an exam, so why should I rely on it, or use it at all?

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#63
post #58
post #18

I haven't found a human that answers every single question correctly, either. You know whom to ask a question based off that person's domain of expertise. Well, AI's domain of expertise is everything (supposedly). What gets difficult is evaluating the response, but let's not pretend that's any easier to do when interacting with a human. Experts give wrong answers all the time. It's generally other experts who point o…

This is a common argument to support the usage of LLMs: "Well, humans do it too." We have many rules, regulations, strategies, patterns, and legions of managers and management philosophy for dealing with humans. With humans, they're incorrect sometimes, yes, and we actively work around their failures. We expect humans to develop over time. We expect them to join a profession and give bad answers a lot. As time goes o…

> The big difference is that computers CAN get every single question correctly.

I emphatically disagree on that point. AFAIK, nobody has been able to demonstrate, even in principle, that omniscience is possible over a domain of sufficient complexity and subtlety. My gut tells me this is related to Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#64
If people are paying for their product, why should they care?

As for why people are paying for a product that returns incorrect results, could be any number of reasons:

- People buy into the hype/marketing and actually think AI-thing is going to replace some part of their workflow

- People want to experiment and see how well it does at replacing part of their workflow

- Whatever the AI-thing does for a customer is not reliant on it being correct, therefore producing incorrect output simply doesn't matter

A good example would be my company's corporate IT AI bot that is effectively a very poor search engine for internal corporate wiki self-help articles on IT and HR related stuff. The actual IT/HR portal has a traditional search that, if you know the terms to search for, does a much better job. So most people ignore the AI, but I'm pretty sure we bought the engine from someone.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#66

When I was a kid there was this new thing that came out called Wikipedia. I couldn't convince anyone it was useful though because they pointed out it was wrong sometimes. Eventually they came around though. AI is like that right now. It's only right sometimes. You need to use judgement. Still useful though.

The difference right now is that many people are paying for it. It feels odd to pay for something that could give wrong answers.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#67

When I was a kid there was this new thing that came out called Wikipedia. I couldn't convince anyone it was useful though because they pointed out it was wrong sometimes. Eventually they came around though. AI is like that right now. It's only right sometimes. You need to use judgement. Still useful though.

I feel like this fails on the premise that the models can be improved to the point where they are reliable. I don't know that holds true. It is extremely uncommon that making a system more complex makes it more reliable.

In the rare cases where more complexity produces a more reliable system, that complexity is always incremental, not sudden.

With our current approach to deep neural networks and LLMs, we missed the incremental step and jumped to rodent brain levels of complexity. Now, we are hoping that we can improve our way to stability.

I don't know of any examples where that has happened - so I am not optimistic about the chances here.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#69

So, if you dealt with a person who knew all the vocabulary related to a field, and could make well-constructed sentences about that field, and sounded confident, it would almost always mean they had spent a lot of time studying that field. That tends to mean that, although they may occasionally make a mistake, they will usually be correct. People apply the same intuition to LLMs, and because it's not a person (and it…

Yep. I think this is right on. The anthropomorphization in their behavior and problem descriptions is flawed.

It's precisely that analogy we learned early in our study of neural networks: the layers analyze the curves, straight segments, edges, size, shape, etc. But, when we look at the activation patterns, we see they are not doing anything remotely like that. They look like stochastic correlations, and the activation pattern was almost entirely random.

The same thing is happening here, but at incomprehensible scales and with fortunes being sunk into hope.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one seem to care that AI gives wrong answers?

#70
post #29

Your point is valid if you believe LLM/Generative AI is deterministic; it is not. It is inference-based, and thus it provides different answers even given the same input at times. The question then becomes, "How wrong can it be and still be useful?" This depends on the use case. It is much harder for applications that require high deterministic output but less important for those that do not. So yes, it does provide…

Yeah. Almost all of the "killer apps" for LLMs all revolve around generating content, images, or videos. My question is always the same, "Is there really such a massive market for mediocre content?"
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