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Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

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Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#61

Post by tptacek »

adastra22 wrote: post #60
tptacek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah? What do you think that role is?

CTO/VP Engineering have the same separation of tasks as CEO/COO. The CTO is the chief engineer he or she sets technical direction for the company. VP of Engineering is the top manager for that division and executes the CEO’s vision using technical choices made by the CTO. In many companies these are the same person, but not always. In my last startup they were separate people. The best chief engineer (CTO) isn’t alwa…

"The CTO is the chief engineer" is both false and somewhat circular. It's false because plenty of "CTOs" --- maybe most of them! --- work outside the engineering organization, and are more closely aligned with product management than software development (CTO is very often a customer-facing "role"). It's circular because it leaves open the question of what a "chief engineer" is.

I worry that a lot of HN "CTO discourse" is really wishcasting, about what an "if I was monarch of all the developers" role would be (and then about what it's like to aspire to such a role). No healthy engineering team has such a person!

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#62

Post by MakeThemMoney »

tptacek wrote: post #53
varispeed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small company would typically call their lead developer a CTO. Though I've seen once this was actually backed up by giving the person real share of the company and a seat on the board.

Why would a small company call their lead developer a CTO?

Because titles are important to some, and can be used as an incentive to lure people in.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#63

Post by tptacek »

MakeThemMoney wrote: post #62
tptacek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a small company call their lead developer a CTO?

Because titles are important to some, and can be used as an incentive to lure people in.

I'd be interested in some examples of where this "recruiting talent by offering to call them 'CTO'" strategy --- which I know has happened! --- has worked out, and what the actual role description for those "CTO"'s was.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#64

Post by adastra22 »

tptacek wrote: post #61
adastra22 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CTO/VP Engineering have the same separation of tasks as CEO/COO. The CTO is the chief engineer he or she sets technical direction for the company. VP of Engineering is the top manager for that division and executes the CEO’s vision using technical choices made by the CTO. In many companies these are the same person, but not always. In my last startup they were separate people. The best chief engineer (CTO) isn’t alwa…

"The CTO is the chief engineer" is both false and somewhat circular. It's false because plenty of "CTOs" --- maybe most of them! --- work outside the engineering organization, and are more closely aligned with product management than software development (CTO is very often a customer-facing "role"). It's circular because it leaves open the question of what a "chief engineer" is. I worry that a lot of HN "CTO discours…

The chief engineer is the one who makes final engineering design decisions.

What industry are you in? In deep-tech / hardware the role of chief engineer is well understood. In biotech it is sometimes called chief scientist.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#65

Post by tptacek »

adastra22 wrote: post #64
tptacek wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The CTO is the chief engineer" is both false and somewhat circular. It's false because plenty of "CTOs" --- maybe most of them! --- work outside the engineering organization, and are more closely aligned with product management than software development (CTO is very often a customer-facing "role"). It's circular because it leaves open the question of what a "chief engineer" is. I worry that a lot of HN "CTO discours…

The chief engineer is the one who makes final engineering design decisions. What industry are you in? In deep-tech / hardware the role of chief engineer is well understood. In biotech it is sometimes called chief scientist.

Wow. I would run, not walk, away from any tech company that had this role.

Since you asked: I'm one of the principals at Fly.io. Before that, I was one of the founders of Latacora, which embeds directly inside of startups for years at a time running their security teams full time. Before that, I founded Matasano Security. Before that, I was a Product Manager at Arbor Networks, after being the lead developer on their DOS product for a couple years. I'll stop there (I'm older than the median HN commenter).

Later

For what it's worth, for companies literally chartered to do scientific exploration --- drug discovery chemistry, for example --- I completely buy that there is a real "Chief Scientist" role, though I can't claim to understand that role well enough to defend it. But that doesn't describe any software company anywhere. Regardless, "CTO" is something different.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#66

Post by vrinsd »

subpixel wrote: post #59
vrinsd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very possible outcome for OP too. The weakest part is usually the human factor and the need to bucket someone into a few categories like "rock star" or "loser" or "slightly better than unskilled labor" or "nerd engineer". Have been in a similar situation and sadly found unless your peers have truly understood what you've done and how, they'll filter your suggestions or insight through whatever bucket they've placed y…

Perhaps when you’re willing to trade a prestigious title for some sanity and personal satisfaction you’ve already determined that it doesn’t matter what your peers think or what gets decided. They key is that you can’t just stop doing what you hate but you have to be able to lean into what gives you some satisfaction.

In my experience its's less about caring what people specifically think of you, and more about how you are treated in whatever team you're on.

Example: I made a trade from a key role to a dev role in one job change. In dev role I was working with a technology I had significant experience with in my prior "key" role. In the new role, when the topic came up, I suggested we avoid certain vendors since in my prior role I was responsible for the technology vetting and I determined the chosen vendor was not forthcoming with some important limitations. My feedback (constructively and succintly presented) was completely ignored since I was "just a developer" and I ended up having to make the sub-par technology actually work.

It was frustrating and painful, not because of ego, but going into the task knowing it would suck since the wrong decision was made and now I was the guy having to make broken pieces meet some demanding requirements because "a developer" couldn't possibly know more than an "architect".

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#67

Post by lulznews »

tptacek wrote: post #25

I flinch whenever I see people talking about "being a CTO", because there's really no such thing. The title doesn't really mean anything. In startupland, three possible (and possibly overlapping) meanings of the title are: 1. The corporate officer title a founder that isn't the CEO gets because they're on the board, purely as recognition of their seniority ("why is this person on the board?" "because they're the CTO.…

Extremely based and uniquely insightful comment. CTO is basically a bullshit job. At small companies it’s just an eng manager or lead eng. At BigCo’s it’s just some guy they pay a lot and trot out for occasional keynotes.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#68

Post by adastra22 »

tptacek wrote: post #65
adastra22 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chief engineer is the one who makes final engineering design decisions. What industry are you in? In deep-tech / hardware the role of chief engineer is well understood. In biotech it is sometimes called chief scientist.

Wow. I would run, not walk, away from any tech company that had this role. Since you asked: I'm one of the principals at Fly.io. Before that, I was one of the founders of Latacora, which embeds directly inside of startups for years at a time running their security teams full time. Before that, I founded Matasano Security. Before that, I was a Product Manager at Arbor Networks, after being the lead developer on their…

Alright, you be you. Sounds like you’ve not worked in hard engineering firms, so we operate in different bubbles.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#69

Post by iamflimflam1 »

I would suggest that a lot of the negative feelings you may be having come from being in a failing startup.

The problem you have in a failing startup is you don’t have any scope for bringing in help for yourself. Can you hire a VPEng or Head of Engineering to take on a lot of the day to day management and delivery responsibilities? You can move yourself into a much more technical/R&D role.

Another thing to remember is that “CTO” can encompass many different things depending on the size of a company.

Very small early stage startups - the CTO is generally the most prolific IC. It may be that this the sweet spot for you.

Businesses often require different CTOs for different stages and there’s nothing wrong with being a particular type of CTO. You can say - “the role has evolved and I’m no longer the right person”. Or “my strengths are in these areas, I need people to fill in these gaps”.

Re: Ask HN: Going from CTO to Developer?

#70

Post by bcaxis »

tptacek wrote: post #63
MakeThemMoney wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because titles are important to some, and can be used as an incentive to lure people in.

I'd be interested in some examples of where this "recruiting talent by offering to call them 'CTO'" strategy --- which I know has happened! --- has worked out, and what the actual role description for those "CTO"'s was.

I've seen such title inflation work for people.

Recently watched a relatively young person parley a position at a small company with a VP title that resulted in a slot at a regionally well known organization as a director and then president of a much larger startup.

Over about 4 years he went from front line sales to running a sizeable company with the key step being the VP title at the small company that rocketed him up.

I also recall a former co-worker that was denied promotion and generally failing to progress in his career. He took a slot at a tiny company explicitly for the title. I think it was director. He managed to parlay that into very positive career moves.

Personally, I don't care as much about titles these days. I just don't want to work for places making terrible tech decisions and forcing me to work within that. I'm happiest making the decisions and really don't want to stop, whatever it's called.

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