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Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

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Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#61

Post by scruple »

golly_ned wrote: post #58

Two similar situations: - a coworker and close friend was moving into management. Went poorly. We both left within six months. We had worked incredibly well together as peers. - I joined a startup where, unbeknownst to me, the engineer who became CTO and an early hire were best friends since college. The early hire became an engineering director. He was awful. His reports knew it. We had to humor him and stop him fro…

I joined a startup recently (it was > 18 months ago at this point). It seemed promising but it was also strange...

I interviewed with the Engineering Director and a manager. Then I had a couple of rounds with ICs. Everything seemed great. I got an offer and accepted it.

When I started, though, one of the people who, during interviews was presented to me as an IC, was now my manager. They had an associate title. I tried to work through it. It was fucking horrible. It was hard but I walked from that job without anything lined up.

By the end of my employment there, I had learned that the entire C-suite was all friends through previous employment. That Director and the original manager were best friends from high school. The associate manager was also a friend of theirs from high school. The Ops/Infra director was also a friend of theirs from high school. And on and on it went.

OP, if you see this... Tread very carefully.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#62

Post by randerson »

Poorly. I did all the work while my friend goofed off and ran personal errands all day. The friend eventually made a fortune selling their equity and retired young. I did not get awarded the same privilege. We no longer speak and I still get angry when I think about that.

On the other hand, I have made good friends through the workplace who I would start a startup with in a heartbeat.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#63

Post by kayodelycaon »

In my experience, you learn a lot about who someone is when something real was at stake. I met one of my best friends at a startup and that completely changed my life in ways I’ll be forever grateful for.

I’ve also seen friends be so afraid of confrontation in a work context that they gaslighted me and stabbed me in the back instead of talking to me. I’ve seen people from church act so differently in a work context, I’ve questioned if they have any ethics at all.

Would I work with a friend again? Sure, if I knew they could be professional and be forgiving if things don’t work out. I would be prepared for our friendship to change as we both learn who we are. It could grow or end.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#65

Post by qup »

Aeolun wrote: post #21
lmm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friendship isn't and shouldn't be a pickled-in-amber thing. If the friendship you have now is one you're happy with, that's a success, whether it's the same as the one you had before or not.

That’s true to some extend. If you are still happy with it, but your friends are not, is it still a success? Not that you’d ever know of course.

I communicate with my friends. I expect them to tell me things like this.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#66

Post by yoav »

I’ve been around the block a few times in tech startups, two separate startups the founders were friends before I joined as an employee. In both cases I met and became friends with them at previous startups where we were all employees in different departments.

If you set boundaries and accept that you will see a different version of your friend as soon as the pressure of vcs and boards employees and management and pride and direct communication and so on take hold then you’ll be ok.

This is especially true for first time founders who do not realize how unprepared they really were for the realities of being a founder. Having been a founder myself before I joined I maybe had greater empathy for the way they became completely different people under those pressures and the dynamics of your friendships can change in different settings.

My advice is to expect and make space for that, and leave on good terms when you start to see that their emergent coping mechanisms with those pressures start to affect your friendship with them and the way you see them.

Treat the friendship as paramount, don’t do it if you don’t have financial security to prevent money or layoffs from feeling personal, don’t make yourself a bus factor, let them have a learning experience and be ok with them not taking your advice.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#67

Post by saghm »

FreakLegion wrote: post #55
ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #38

Didn’t end up going to work for the friend, but the situation still strained the friendship. An engineer I worked with for several years (and became friends with outside of work) started his own company, a couple of years later he recruited me to join as his business was taking off. He’d also brought in a business guy who seemed to put in lots of processes including a mandatory take-home coding assignment as part of…

Separate from whether the process was any good, your friend wasn't necessarily wrong not to make you an exception to it. Nepotism can be pretty rough on a team's morale.

Yeah, if I were someone working at a company having gone through the "normal" hiring process and then someone new joined my team and I found out they didn't have to go through it because they thought it was a waste of time and they were friends with the founder, that would feel pretty shitty.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#68

Post by saghm »

highwaylights wrote: post #8
hellcow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve hired several friends as employees. It works fine if both of you are able to separate work from friendship. Admittedly not everyone can do this, but it worked out in my situation.

It probably did, you know your friends and I don’t, but you don’t know that it worked out. You really have no way of knowing if your friends still think of you the same post-employment even if you’re still acquainted.

> You really have no way of knowing if your friends still think of you the same post-employment even if you’re still acquainted.

I don't know about that. Sure, they might not have been totally happy with it, but if they're still friends with them, clearly they didn't hold any grudged. I think it's reasonable to give someone the benefit of the doubt that they aren't just being oblivious to the fact that they've been ghosted or something unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#69

Post by y1426i »

Many of the responses are about the relationship and how that turned out. Instead, the decision to join or not join that startup should come, assuming you both are strangers. Is the opportunity good, does it progress your career, pays you well, and is the equity fair?

Given the answer to that is yes, the job may or may not work out well, that risk remains the same. The decision to leave that startup again should not be based on friendship but on personal situations and aspirations.

I personally feel its better to be working with friends than with strangers. The hierarchy equation is simply a matter of circumstances.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#70

Post by Prcmaker »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #22
YZF wrote: post #12

I joined a friend's business as an employee and worked for him for years. I think for the most part that went ok but the fact that we're not friends any more probably tells you something. At some point I felt like I was being taken advantage of, left, and that sort of ruined the friendship. We weren't particularly close friends to start with and we were still on talking terms when our work relationship ended. I also…

Anyone giving you a wage while seeking a profit instead of partner equity is taking advantage of you tautologically

A fine opinion if you can afford it. I'll take a wage any day of the week, equity is nice to have once I know I can eat this week.
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