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Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

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Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#61

Post by throw10920 »

albert180 wrote: post #22
LoganDark wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it "more convenience and polish" is a bit of an understatement. My experience with open-source software is that if it breaks or it's missing a feature and you want your needs to be addressed then you will have to hack on it yourself. While this is great for people who enjoy hacking it's not great once you get bored of it. I always enjoyed macOS (at least pre-Catalina) because it's Unix but without the require…

I've needed 0 Seconds of hacking since using Fedora for 2 years. Linux has evolved in the last 14 Years

Every single one of the 6 desktop-class devices that I've used over the past decade have had multiple issues running Linux, some of which I was never able to resolve. This soundly refutes your point, because it's not enough for Linux to run well on one computer - it has to run well on most of them.

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#62

Post by torstenvl »

Sadly, not really. Academically, there is what I would consider a good tentative argument that these folks are "access[ing] a computer with authorization and [using] such access to . . . alter information in the computer" without consent. 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(6).

However, private federal prosecutions aren't really a thing. And I think you'd be hard pressed to get the FBI or USAO to take a novel application like this and expend resources on pursuing it.

Have you considered filing in small claims and getting your $80-or-so 1Password license fee back?

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#63

Post by torstenvl »

latexr wrote: post #11

> For example 1Password deliberately crippled perfectly fine password sync for users because they wanted to force them to new, cloud (and subscription) based version. I’m unhappy with 1Password’s direction and I’m no longer a user, but it’s important to note that at least on macOS and iOS they never forced anyone to update to the new versions. I didn’t stop using 1Password 7 when version 8 was relased. It continued t…

This is false. They absolutely did force upgrades by crippling functionality on older versions and license modes. Specifically, at some point accessing 1Password through the share sheet was disabled.

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#64

Post by drstewart »

donmcronald wrote: post #6

I wish there were legal protections against this kind of thing. Even worse, I’ve had updates break stuff that might never get fixed. For example, I have Roku TVs and a recent update broke CEC. The updates aren’t for my benefit, because my TVs worked fine from day one. Instead, the updates are to push more and more advertising and recommendations. It’s to the point where my TVs are slow, bloated, half broken trash. Th…

>I wish there were legal protections against this kind of thing. Even worse, I’ve had updates break stuff that might never get fixed.

If we just make bugs illegal, there will be no more bugs.

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#65

Post by soco »

Etheryte wrote: post #38
albert180 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've needed 0 Seconds of hacking since using Fedora for 2 years. Linux has evolved in the last 14 Years

I can easily trust my older relatives to do fine on macOS, Linux would be either painful or more realistically a no go.

I installed Mint on two older relatives computers and they're both fine with it. They also do only browse, youtube, maybe open a PDF or edit a Word (rather, let someone else edit on their machine). Zero complaints for this use case.

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#66

Post by latexr »

torstenvl wrote: post #63
latexr wrote: post #11

> For example 1Password deliberately crippled perfectly fine password sync for users because they wanted to force them to new, cloud (and subscription) based version. I’m unhappy with 1Password’s direction and I’m no longer a user, but it’s important to note that at least on macOS and iOS they never forced anyone to update to the new versions. I didn’t stop using 1Password 7 when version 8 was relased. It continued t…

This is false. They absolutely did force upgrades by crippling functionality on older versions and license modes. Specifically, at some point accessing 1Password through the share sheet was disabled.

Clearly they did not force upgrades, since I didn’t do it. I only stopped using 1Password 7 a few weeks ago, after having moved my last items somewhere else.

Your example doesn’t make sense, the share sheet wasn’t implemented in 1Password 8.

https://1password.community/discussion/122959/where-is-share...

https://1password.community/discussion/129044/share-sheet-ex...

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#67

Post by [deleted] »

latexr wrote: post #66
torstenvl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false. They absolutely did force upgrades by crippling functionality on older versions and license modes. Specifically, at some point accessing 1Password through the share sheet was disabled.

Clearly they did not force upgrades, since I didn’t do it . I only stopped using 1Password 7 a few weeks ago, after having moved my last items somewhere else. Your example doesn’t make sense, the share sheet wasn’t implemented in 1Password 8 . https://1password.community/discussion/122959/where-is-share... https://1password.community/discussion/129044/share-sheet-ex...

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#68

Post by torstenvl »

latexr wrote: post #66
torstenvl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false. They absolutely did force upgrades by crippling functionality on older versions and license modes. Specifically, at some point accessing 1Password through the share sheet was disabled.

Clearly they did not force upgrades, since I didn’t do it . I only stopped using 1Password 7 a few weeks ago, after having moved my last items somewhere else. Your example doesn’t make sense, the share sheet wasn’t implemented in 1Password 8 . https://1password.community/discussion/122959/where-is-share... https://1password.community/discussion/129044/share-sheet-ex...

Your claim was that "at least on macOS and iOS they never forced anyone to update to the new versions"

In support of that you have exclusively discussed 1Password 7 and 1Password 8. You cite the fact that you're still on 1Password 7 as "clear[]" evidence that this never happened.

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#69

Post by appplication »

LoganDark wrote: post #9
paxys wrote: post #4

The way to fight this has been out there since before most of these companies and products have existed – use FOSS. If you want more convenience and polish then just remember that you are trading it for privacy and autonomy. There is no middle option.

Calling it "more convenience and polish" is a bit of an understatement. My experience with open-source software is that if it breaks or it's missing a feature and you want your needs to be addressed then you will have to hack on it yourself. While this is great for people who enjoy hacking it's not great once you get bored of it. I always enjoyed macOS (at least pre-Catalina) because it's Unix but without the require…

Was there something specifically negative about Catalina you were avoiding or did you just get tired of OS updates at that point.

Re: Ask HN: Any legal way against forced software upgrades and feature removal

#70

Post by latexr »

torstenvl wrote: post #68
latexr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly they did not force upgrades, since I didn’t do it . I only stopped using 1Password 7 a few weeks ago, after having moved my last items somewhere else. Your example doesn’t make sense, the share sheet wasn’t implemented in 1Password 8 . https://1password.community/discussion/122959/where-is-share... https://1password.community/discussion/129044/share-sheet-ex...

Your claim was that "at least on macOS and iOS they never forced anyone to update to the new versions" In support of that you have exclusively discussed 1Password 7 and 1Password 8. You cite the fact that you're still on 1Password 7 as "clear[]" evidence that this never happened.

The OP said:

> For example 1Password deliberately crippled perfectly fine password sync for users

Which happened from 1Password 7 to 8. So yes, of course I mentioned that transition. That is the new version. But that’s the same for all previous ones; they never forced you to upgrade, old versions didn’t stop working on their own. They might have stopped being compatible with certain OS upgrades, but that’s not deliberate crippling or forcing updates.

What’s your point? You replied but offered no argument or rebuttal. All you’ve done so far is disagree without advancing the discussion, which is a waste of time for everyone involved.

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