Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 464 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#61

Post by h317 »

About a month ago, I bought a toaster for Christmas, and, while walking in the alley and checking prices offline and online, I was mesmerized by the price strategies. With quantities that toasters operate in, their production cost is around a few dollars, and I bought one for $50 without any digital features.

If you are planning to build one in the USA, you will probably need to tell yourself what "build in the USA" means. Is it PCB printing, PCB assembly, plastic production, mold production, cool design features, coil design, final assembly, or some combination of the above? You will be surprised to find some of the requirements to put "made in the X country."

I do product development professionally, so take the comment as my bias, but it is a light project to start with as there are minimum components, you can build the entire thing in the garage, and it is something that everyone around you can give feedback on. Almost like an art project.

Anyway, I would love to share any info you may find useful to start. Email in the profile, if you are interested.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#62

Post by fxtentacle »

I'd say give it a virtual try :)

Fusion 360 is a horrible cloud lock-in, but it's also cheap and feature complete. Custom injection parts are expensive, but thin sheet metal you can cut at your local hackerspace. And now just try if you can design the mechanical functionality using only off-the-shelf screws and sheet metal parts with easy bend sequence.

The control stuff is easy and cheap. KiCad is your friend.

Once you have a prototype showing the rudimentary mechanical parts, you'll have a much better idea of the work and costs involved. Plan for about 8x mark-up from production costs to end-user price.

And last but not least, many projects die because they cannot access the relevant market cheaply enough. I used to sell bikinis online, which was fun and profitable in the beginning. But once all those other boutique fashion brands started spamming Instagram, acquiring customers became too expensive so the entire operation wasn't profitable anymore. So try to estimate how much it'll cost you to advertise to prospective customers.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#64

Post by c_o_n_v_e_x »

>I also love learning about mechanical engineering and manufacturing, but have never actually tried making anything.

I strongly recommend you hire professionals for this. I've worked as a Product Manager for physical products. There is a gulf of knowledge between designing something in CAD and designing something that will endure the rigors of toasting for 20 years. The previous sentence doesn't even cover the gulf of knowledge between taking a prototype to a design that's meant for mass production.

I'm interested in creating a portfolio of open source appliances. Stuff that will last for life (or is at least repairable). If it's a "smart" applicance and open source, you don't need to worry about your appliance spying on you or being at the whims of a vendor who bricks your device for whatever reason.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#65

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

rvnx wrote: post #39

Aren't the best toasters in Japan ?

I haven't seen much in the way of pop-up toasters, but for toaster ovens, at least, they have really taken it above and beyond. Plenty of made-in-Japan models too. Unfortunately, toasters are one of those appliances that can be sensitive to grid voltage, so a toaster bought in Japan might not work as well in other countries.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#66

Post by wenc »

If I had money and was looking for a high end toaster, I'd pay $200+ for a European toaster like SMEG. It'd be more for the aesthetics than the functionality.

When you're paying that much money for a functional item, you're buying into a story. When you have a SMEG appliance, you're buying a sophisticated identity and a conversation piece. You're telling people you appreciate Dieter Rams type industrial design.

Somehow a Made in Michigan toaster doesn't have the same cachet. Neither do Black and Deckers or Cuisinarts.

(that said, Breville from Australia is getting away charging $200 for its toasters)

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#67

Post by jacknews »

OK now I'm starting to think we live in the matrix - I've spend the last 24 hours (unemployed currently, you see) looking at toasters and designs, with the same idea. And because my toaster just broke.

The state of toasters seems quite dire. Most are basically the same mechanism internally with different style covers.

Some quick learnings/thoughts:

- why are they open at the top? Some expensive Japanese toasters are more like grills or ovens, and sealing in steam seems to be key to their hyped results.

- commercial toasters and some like west bend have 'drop thru' toasting, where the toast drops out of the bottom when done instead of popping up. Nice design.

- Two slot toasters always power both slots even when toasting one slice.

- Many toasters don't allow you to change the timer mid-toast. I mean you can change it, but it doesn't do anything until next cycle. Also few indicate how much time is left.

- crumb trays don't work for many toasters, they're too narrow compared with all the places crumbs fall.

- expensive 'old school' toasters like Dualit just don't have the features, and are too clunky.

- the toasters with windows toast much more slowly (use tube heaters instead of a 'grid' of nichrome) and the window is useless anyway since the heater element makes everything orange.

- One thing I find amusing is some reviewers are testing these $100,$200 toasters with regular supermarket chorleywood bread. I mean at least toast some actual bread, not foam.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#68

Post by vturner »

methodical wrote: post #43
vturner wrote: post #31

Wish I could offer more than best wishes, but I am in a similar boat: pondering some product ideas while working as a SWE. This line caught my attention - "I also love learning about mechanical engineering and manufacturing" How do you go about that? Have you found any good books, YouTube videos, etc. that are accessible for us SWEs?

This may be a difference in learning preference, but I've always found the easiest way for me to learn about new topics was to jump into them directly. Supplemental reading could certainly help of course, so I apologize that I have nothing to provide in that area, but if you're interested in it I'd recommend just jumping in with simple projects and learning on your own from there- with assistance from just searching…

Thank-you!

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#69

Post by ekimehtor »

Why not try getting toasters from the reuse centres that divert such things from the landfill? Most times it's just a thermal fuse that pops due to a jammed piece of toast. That's a very cheap and easy repair and if you can't fix it, you can resell the heating elements for a good price.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#70

Post by jacknews »

starky wrote: post #40

I think you are greatly over-estimating how many people would be willing to pay the cost of a North American made toaster. This would require an absolute ton of capital to do it on anything above a craft scale. The challenges of design, testing, certification (very important for a device that could burn your house down), manufacturing, supply chain, and support that are all specialized careers in themselves. I've got…

People are paying $100's for dualit, smeg, the japanese toaster overs, and some of high end breville, cuisinart, etc.

There's a market. Not big perhaps. But it needs to be more than just 'made in America'.

Post reply on HN