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Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

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Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#61

Post by samsolomon »

Random_BSD_Geek wrote: post #34
samsolomon wrote: post #21

There's a lot of "it depends" here. As both a former founder and early startup employee these are the things that come to mind— How far out did you discuss this with your employer? Were they aware of it when you joined? There's a pretty big difference if this is 6 months or two weeks away. Setting expectations go a long way here on both sides. What is the size of the business? People are more critical the smaller the…

This is unbelievable nonsense. Your employees accrue PTO. If you can't handle them using their PTO, maybe you shouldn't have employees. If three consecutive weeks is a lot to ask, what would you do when that same employee gets hit by a bus and is dead for even longer? Oh right, you'd just replace them and the business would move on. OP, this is the real answer to your question. The business doesn't care about you or…

I gave a measured reply given what the poster provided.

"Unbelievable nonsense" is a pretty harsh response. If they are working for a 10-person business burning cash, that is very different than a profitable 1,000-person one.

The poster asked about etiquette. Personally, I'd be offended as a founder or employee at a 10-person company if someone asked for 3 weeks off at the last minute.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#62

Post by frenchie75 »

In the US, I would hardly be surprised. Working in France, I have 7 weeks of vacation every year (with 5 weeks being the minimum required by labor law for all full-time employees). In my company we're also required to take a "congé principal" once a year of at least 10 consecutive working days. As in most French companies, it's also pretty much the norm for people to take off 3 or even 4 weeks in July/August, I prefer to use mine over the course of the year though, unless I make big travel plans.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#63

Post by Tade0 »

I'm not based in the US, but US companies outsourcing to my location that I worked for did find the concept foreign.

I make a point out of taking the last two weeks of the year off, but I could stretch it to three, because my manager takes this much, so it's not like he would be waiting for me with something anyway.

I'm also planning on taking a whole month off should I become a father of a second child. I took two weeks for the first one and in hindsight it was not enough. A (male) friend of mine took six and the only thing holding me back from doing the same are finances, since as a contractor I have a daily rate.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#64

Post by philomath_mn »

Another complicating factor is "unlimited vacation". I have it at my new gig and I think I probably have _less_ recourse than a person with an explicit "4 weeks of PTO" in their employment contract.

That being said, the company is really chill and every seems to be taking a good amount of vacation (and I told my manager I am targeting 5 weeks off per year and he said that is reasonable).

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#65

Post by id00 »

Clubber wrote: post #55
Random_BSD_Geek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that some arbitrary number of weeks of vacation isn't the business-destroying choice this founder makes it out to be. Use your PTO. You earned it.

It depends on how important you are. If you are the director of sales, software architect, or something like that, it can be business destroying; particularly if some unforeseen emergency happens. An example is a new big client is suddenly requiring something happen before signing a contract and everyone needs to be on deck for that to happen. If you are one of 100 CSRs, then it wouldn't be business-destroying obviou…

Any serious business needs to have a continuity plan and can't depend on availability of a single person. What if the person you depend on will have a medical emergency or resign?

Business owners can take this risk but using "don't take more than 2 weeks of PTO" as a risk mitigation strategy is disingenuous and disrespectful to their employees.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#66

Post by fnimick »

id00 wrote: post #65
Clubber wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how important you are. If you are the director of sales, software architect, or something like that, it can be business destroying; particularly if some unforeseen emergency happens. An example is a new big client is suddenly requiring something happen before signing a contract and everyone needs to be on deck for that to happen. If you are one of 100 CSRs, then it wouldn't be business-destroying obviou…

Any serious business needs to have a continuity plan and can't depend on availability of a single person. What if the person you depend on will have a medical emergency or resign? Business owners can take this risk but using "don't take more than 2 weeks of PTO" as a risk mitigation strategy is disingenuous and disrespectful to their employees.

Startups running lean, which is what you need to do in order to maximize runway, don't have the money or time for "continuity plans".

Haven't you ever joked about the "bus factor"? All the startups I've worked at would have likely failed if any one of the core people had to depart, for any reason.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#67

Post by Clubber »

id00 wrote: post #65
Clubber wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how important you are. If you are the director of sales, software architect, or something like that, it can be business destroying; particularly if some unforeseen emergency happens. An example is a new big client is suddenly requiring something happen before signing a contract and everyone needs to be on deck for that to happen. If you are one of 100 CSRs, then it wouldn't be business-destroying obviou…

Any serious business needs to have a continuity plan and can't depend on availability of a single person. What if the person you depend on will have a medical emergency or resign? Business owners can take this risk but using "don't take more than 2 weeks of PTO" as a risk mitigation strategy is disingenuous and disrespectful to their employees.

You're not wrong, but early stage startups are a unique animal.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#68

Post by bryanlarsen »

jjeaff wrote: post #56
SoftTalker wrote: post #22

When I worked in academia, yes absolutely if the weeks aligned with breaks in instruction. So winter holidays, or pretty much any time in June, July, or August were fine for long stretches of PTO. In the private sector, I think I took one two-week vacation. It was not a problem, but it had to be approved. One company I worked with had a mandatory 8 week sabbatical after 10 years, and every 5 years thereafter. It had…

A company policy requiring large blocks of time off strikes me as a really good idea for companies that can afford it. The employees get time to decompress and destress thus making them more productive and creative. And the company is given a chance to figure out what it takes to cover your job if you were to leave. Like finding out that no one else has credentials to that one ultra important service that only has to…

It's a common policy for financial firms. It's hard to cover fraud when you're on vacation

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#69

Post by bryanlarsen »

Recommendation: If they're asking you to work remote, take even more time. IOW, rather than working 1 of 3 weeks remote, work 3 of 5. That's what I did this summer as part of a 3 person startup. It gave both my family and my company a good amount of time.

Re: Ask HN: Can you take more than 2 consecutive weeks of vacation?

#70

Post by jgwil2 »

fnimick wrote: post #60
jejeyyy77 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, unlimited PTO is a scam. But, to make lemonade, I make sure to take 4-5 weeks of PTO per year, EVERY year. That way, it's actually a perk/advantageous over traditional PTO packages.

How do you successfully advocate for that? These experiences blow my mind - I have managed to take 4-5 weeks of PTO, total, over the course of a decade in my career at "unlimited PTO" startups due to pretty much always being mission critical, and even those took some real pushing.

If you're mission-critical then your company has a bus factor of 1, so you probably should make sure that other people know how to fill in for you. Then you can take PTO and tell people to look at it as a training exercise just in case you do get hit by that bus (or, you know, quit because you're burned out).
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