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Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

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Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#61

Post by hermitcrab »

mcook08 wrote: post #18

I’m a Dad who grew up in the 80s and the problem is us, the parents. My parents didn’t push me to get into computing, I just found it fascinating. If we try to find things like gentle introductions, it’s likely to get more kids to a base level familiarity but all of the real learning was in reading a 256 page manual as an 8 year old so I could get StarCraft to work on my highly custom rig. Parents as the driving forc…

From my experience, the best approach is to get your children to try lots of different things and let them find their own interests. I tried lots of things with my son:

https://successfulsoftware.net/2014/01/31/fun-and-geeky-thin...

Some he really enjoyed. Other he lost interest in very quickly.

It can be frustrating when they quickly lose interest in some toy you have spent your hard earned cash on. But that is the way it goes. One of the things we tried was model rocketry (starting with a small Estes kit) and that was a big success. He has now won competitions, is level 1 certified and wants to study aerospace engineering at University.

I guess it is a bit like running a film studio - most of the films lose money, but the occasional blockbuster more than makes up for it.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#62

Post by hermitcrab »

lolinder wrote: post #50
f1shy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Parents as the driving force simply won’t work. I keep seeing that myth. Most of the people I know studies the same as their parents, inspired by them. Specially what catches in kids are hobbies. I have lots of friend which are professional or semi professional musicians. All of them got the playing of the instrument from the parents.

My wife's siblings are all musicians because that's the direction their mom drove, but nearly all of them now wish that they'd been allowed to pursue what they were truly interested in. If given a choice, only one of six would have chosen music as the primary thing in their life. Seeing that, my feeling isn't so much that parents as the driving force doesn't work, it's that it's cruel. Our kids are not blank slates f…

> Our kids are not blank slates for us to write on

So true. Hopefully we can give them (what we consider) good basic values. But we can't (and should try to) mold every aspect of their intests and personalities. And anyone who thinks that they can is in for a rude shock.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#64

Post by vcg3rd »

tshirttime wrote: post #58

Unplug the computer from the internet, hand the kid a UNIX manual, and suck all joy from computing. Having a working browser teach you programming is like having an android in the form of Kelly LeBrock teach you robotics. You're gonna want to do things to it that engage your little brain.

You're dating yourself with the LeBrock analogy! But it dates me too. I was too old to care about "Wierd Science" (was it?) but "Woman in Red"??? Good times!

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#65

Post by vcg3rd »

beardyw wrote: post #35

Whilst I understand the nostalgia, I think it's easy to forget that these things were modern and exciting - not so much today. I suggest you take what is here today and use it. If it were me (and it may soon be) I would get them to make a static (ie with no backend processing) web page. It is easy and can be free to publish it. The basic page can then be enhanced with interaction using scripting almost without limits…

Maybe set them up at NeoCities, depending on age, but could also move into CGI and RSS with this. I may be way off, but I feel like CGI could be a bridge between markup and programming.

My sparse knowledge of CGI dates to the 90s, and IANAP(rogrammer).

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#66

Post by glimshe »

Grimburger wrote: post #38
talkingtab wrote: post #27

A Rasberry Pi. The number of things you can do with these cheap computers is astronomical. You can have a Debian Linux computer and then learn networking, programming, run your own small website. Then start on hardware. Connect up various hardware devices, maybe starting with just a fan. Turn on. Turn off. A second monitor, larger disks. Webrtc. On an on. You never know what kinds of things kids will like. They may l…

A pi by itself, eh I don't know. A pi + a full kit like breadboard/cables, LCD/LED display panels, camera, microphone/speaker, air sensors, IR sensors, gyros, etc. Now that's got a chance. It's certainly not going to be for all kids but for those with an inquisitive mind once you set them up and show how to display output in various ways they will start to see the potential. From there you can move onto basic rc hobb…

The Raspberry Pi 400 is the closest thing you can get to, let's say, ZX Spectrum.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#67

Post by f1shy »

Taikonerd wrote: post #56
em500 wrote: post #32

There is no a modern day equivalent. Not because of availibility of hardware or software (both better hardware and better software are widely available at trivial costs nowadays), but because the world around us has changed. Specifically, the experience needs to compete against the limitless other distractions from the internet. Here's a simple simulation of the 1980s experience: https://virtualconsoles.com/online-em…

This, unfortunately, is the truth. But that begs the question: what are 11-year-old computer nerds doing now? Modding games? Building complicated machines in Minecraft?

There are lots of things to do. Lots of programming things mixed with other domains like music. Just one example: https://sonic-pi.net/tutorial.html There are tones of SBC, plus arduino. Calliope and others. Scratch for little kids, lego mindstorms. I know boys between 11 and 13 learning Python, programming some simple games. There are also lots of robots and HW. What there is not (or I do not know it) is something like the microcomputer of the 80s. That is a little computer which can do graphics, sound, little games, and even control peripherals with a very simple language. I would really have something like that.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#68

Post by f1shy »

jmmv wrote: post #19

I tried to set up a Raspberry Pi and configured it to boot into a simple window manager with DosBox full screen by default. I taught my kids to launch games within that and they learned the very basics… but it didn’t stick: they haven’t really gained any interest in how to do other stuff in the shell. Anyway: check (my own) https://www.endbasic.dev/ which I’ve written precisely for the situation you describe :) You w…

This is a good idea. What I think you need (based on my own experience) is a book with documentation and exercises, games and such. Also you need interfaces with video, sound, and some hardware.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#69

Post by candiodari »

em500 wrote: post #32

There is no a modern day equivalent. Not because of availibility of hardware or software (both better hardware and better software are widely available at trivial costs nowadays), but because the world around us has changed. Specifically, the experience needs to compete against the limitless other distractions from the internet. Here's a simple simulation of the 1980s experience: https://virtualconsoles.com/online-em…

Exactly, this means we are living in a very weird period in history. Right now there are people who know a lot about computers, for the sake of "they looked cool in the 80s/90s". People born in the 70s and 80s are ~5-15 years removed from pension or disappearing from the workforce. Already there are no 20 year old and few 30 year old geeks.

3% of us are disappearing every year. And that's just not going to stop.

Re: Ask HN: Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?

#70

Post by f1shy »

Taikonerd wrote: post #51
Taikonerd wrote: post #36

Most people are posting links to hardware, but in my mind, this is a software question. Maybe one of those BASIC interpreters with an integrated IDE, the way that QBASIC used to be on older Windows versions? QB64 is the modern equivalent: https://qb64.com/ Your kids won't literally need to navigate the command line to launch the games. But I think that editing config files to "hack" the game is still on the table :-)…

Responding to my own comment: maybe it does have to be separate hardware. If your kid is programming on the same computer they use for Fortnight , then whenever they lose momentum and get discouraged, they're going to be tempted to switch over and play a nice shiny AAA game instead. Or hop on social media, etc. Modern computers just have too many distractions at hand. Having a separate computer just for the lo-fi pro…

I think it has to be a different HW. Iroamed a lot about it, and have your same conclusion. To your parent comment, yes. Is about SW. And the problem I see, ist that today we have super conputers with studio level audio, and cinema quality video. But programing anything other than a “hello world” or basic text application, is so difficult and complex, that no average kid will endeavor such a trip. Frameworks, Libraries… full of rabbit-holes that I do not dare to enter being a professional programmer. We need some simple language that allows to bild interesting things relatively easy… like endbasic in other comments.
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