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Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

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Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#61

Post by JohnFen »

shaftway wrote: post #49
JohnFen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have had a number of failures at all phases of projects. I have a life philosophy about this: failure is the path to success (I've never learned anything by being right). It can be hard to maintain the mindset, but it's actually true -- we learn from our mistakes, so nothing is a failure as long as a lesson was derived from it. If you can maintain that mindset, it takes a lot of the stress out of things!

In general I agree and I've preached the same. But the moment when you're holding the result of a month of weekends in your hands and you have to drop it in the trash can is tough.

Absolutely. That's what makes it hard. It feels like wasted time and effort.

I don't do woodworking, but I do fairly complicated electronics projects as a hobby, and a similar effect happens. I made a special display case where I put those failed projects on display, next to the final successful one. It reminds me that the failed example was just a stage in development and makes me feel better.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#62

Post by JohnFen »

jsunderland323 wrote: post #44
JohnFen wrote: post #17

The best dev I ever knew developed a serious case of burnout. He went to truck-driving school and drove long-haul trucks for a couple of years. He then came back to software development cured of his burnout. Not saying that you should drive trucks, but I think doing something else -- something completely unrelated to dev work -- might be of help.

I feel like taking a job where people take meth to drive for 3 days without sleep is probably the weirdest way to overcome JavaScript fatigue.

That in no way resembles his work experience. He did tell me a few interesting things, though. He was really surprised how many software devs he met who were driving the big rigs. It seems to be a thing.

Another was how many skills overlap the two fields. Driving the big rig is an exercise in resource management and planning, so you can do things like ensure that by the time you need more fuel, you're in a place where the fuel costs are lower.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#63

Post by huijzer »

unforeseen9991 wrote: post #57
lostlogin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. I don’t agree. You can be well paid and well rewarded and burnt out. People need holiday, breaks and time to relax. If you are busy and stressed for a long period, hobbies don’t get time, life admin doesn’t get done and exhaustion comes to dominates weekends and evenings.

Yeah, by that definition people going to school or learning a new career that can take years of effort would all be in perpetual burnout. I think that's way too simplistic of a definition of what causes burnout.

How about we tune the definition to: burnout occurs when you feel that your life is not going where it should be going and your attempt to change that don’t work out?

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#64

Post by jsunderland323 »

JohnFen wrote: post #62
jsunderland323 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like taking a job where people take meth to drive for 3 days without sleep is probably the weirdest way to overcome JavaScript fatigue.

That in no way resembles his work experience. He did tell me a few interesting things, though. He was really surprised how many software devs he met who were driving the big rigs. It seems to be a thing. Another was how many skills overlap the two fields. Driving the big rig is an exercise in resource management and planning, so you can do things like ensure that by the time you need more fuel, you're in a place wher…

Sorry, I made my comment in jest. I guess it didn’t land well.

Yeah, I can see the resource planning overlaps. I’m glad it worked out for your friend!

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#65

Post by doublerebel »

You seem to have burned out pretty quickly. Most small business and startups take 5+ years to be sustainable and/or find an exit.

What most commenters here are assuming is that you will like this same kind of work after you take a break. I'm not sure that you've discovered the difference between the kind of work that you think you like vs the kind of work you really like and/or doesn't feel like work. Lots of us with certain skills feel like we should fit in a certain job and/or be able to handle running a business on our own, but that doesn't mean it's the case.

Above all I would recommend finding any job where you feel valued -- either by your colleagues or because you feel you are doing something productive and/or rewarding. I've had scores of different jobs over the years across different industries and what you may end up wanting to do long-term may surprise you.

Don't spend too much time inside your own head in a loop. I totally agree with this comment from qazxcvbnmlp:

> If you have financial means - I’d recommend taking a part time job where your output is immediately visible (bartending, carpentry, landscaping, (I personally load bags on airplanes)). Remember the goal is not to make money, it’s to have people tell you what you are doing matters. Eg, have someone notice the extra 5 mins you put in to make the lawn lines straight. See the smile on a regular when you remember their order. Etc.

I'd replace "financial means" with "budgetary discipline". It's much easier to take all kinds of opportunities if you are disciplined about expenses.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#66

Post by satisfice »

lostlogin wrote: post #45
qazxcvbnmlp wrote: post #39

Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. Building your own thing can be very conducive to burnout b/c most of the time you’re not really getting a lot of positive ideas. Everyone likes to say that vacation is the solution to burnout, and it can be, but it’s not the end all be all. Your brain needs to feel contentment at the end of a typical day. Contentment indicates you’re filling…

> Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. I don’t agree. You can be well paid and well rewarded and burnt out. People need holiday, breaks and time to relax. If you are busy and stressed for a long period, hobbies don’t get time, life admin doesn’t get done and exhaustion comes to dominates weekends and evenings.

Think about “reward” more broadly. When it comes to burnout, your body doesn’t care about money. Money is not a reward in and of itself, but rather it’s your feeling about money that matters.

When you experience burnout, it’s not due to muscle fatigue or lack of sleep. Burnout happens when you aren’t getting something that you need psychologically, over a long period of time. Then the psychological deficit begins to have physical symptoms.

I experienced burnout quite a bit in the first half of my life; hardly any in the second half. I’m 57.

The advice I got that helped the most is to listen to that little voice in my mind that was telling me “stop, I don’t like this!”

Also, I learned that when I am helping people and I feel respected in what I do my mind will happily endure whatever must be done.

Burnout is the result of a spiritual vitamin deficiency. I realize that is a metaphor for “chronic cortisol poisoning” or some biochemical thing, but the solution is to discover and stop the dynamic on the level of your mind.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#67

Post by lostlogin »

unforeseen9991 wrote: post #57
lostlogin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. I don’t agree. You can be well paid and well rewarded and burnt out. People need holiday, breaks and time to relax. If you are busy and stressed for a long period, hobbies don’t get time, life admin doesn’t get done and exhaustion comes to dominates weekends and evenings.

Yeah, by that definition people going to school or learning a new career that can take years of effort would all be in perpetual burnout. I think that's way too simplistic of a definition of what causes burnout.

> by that definition people going to school or learning a new career that can take years of effort would all be in perpetual burnout.

That’s my point - many are.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#68

Post by shaftway »

JohnFen wrote: post #61
shaftway wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general I agree and I've preached the same. But the moment when you're holding the result of a month of weekends in your hands and you have to drop it in the trash can is tough.

Absolutely. That's what makes it hard. It feels like wasted time and effort. I don't do woodworking, but I do fairly complicated electronics projects as a hobby, and a similar effect happens. I made a special display case where I put those failed projects on display, next to the final successful one. It reminds me that the failed example was just a stage in development and makes me feel better.

I wish I had the space for that with some of my projects. The expensive one was a desk with walnut, maple and resin. The resin cracked and discolored. The lesson was that when they say you can pour it 2 inches thick, you have to remember that they're liars, and to use a different brand and pour in 1/4 inch layers.

The final product was epic, and I use it every day, but the failed desk was too big to keep.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#70

Post by ensocode »

Same here. In for 10 years now. Same issues. I am running a homestead now and the manual work and seeing things developing makes me happy. Sure, time is even less than before and sometimes it is exhausting, but the weekends give something visible back and it is much more real than the abstract work we usually do. Good luck!
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