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Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

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Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#61
There's a lot to unpack here. There are three lessons here:

1. No one is going to advocate for your interests other than you;

2. How hard you work doesn't matter. It may even be detrimental. What matters is how your work is perceived. Hopefully that correlates with adding value to the business (and you should be able to quantify that) but that's not necessarily true; and

3. Listen to the money. Words cost nothing.

Big companies are political. You will often find you get the best results merely ingratiating yourself with various key people and talking a lot about how hard your job is and how amazing the things you've done are.

Even bringing up problems to your manager can hurt you. Often you won't be rewarded for foreseeing a problem. You'll be punished for being negative. Your manager may simply not be talking to you because you (in their mind) "create" problems.

Let me put another way: if you anticipate a problem and fixes it before it becomes a problem there's a good chance you'll get absolutely zero credit for it. But if things blow up spectacularly and you come in and save the day? Well, you're hte hero.

As for your manager bringing in a friend. It might be a friend. More likely (IME) is it's someone your manager has simply decided they like. They may like them because the new engineer doesn't "create" problems. It could be as simple as some common background (eg same college) or it could just be vibes.

As for being told you are the "best engineer", words cost nothing. If that praise doesn't translate into some kind of reward (eg promotion or direct compensation) it means exactly nothing. You will find a lot of managers wil learn who can be assuaged with words.

Listen to the money.

As for getting the "cold shoulder" treatment, it could be that the rest of your team can see which way the wind is blowing and don't want to get on your manager's bad side. A lot of work life is simply currying favor. But you need to take a good, hard look at how you conduct yourself at work. Why? Because it could be that they just don't like you.

The reasons for this can be (and often are) completely superficial. Maybe they view you as negative. Maybe you don't know how to carry a conversation. Maybe you don't ask them about themselves. Maybe you one-up them. Who knows?

Engineers tend to be more introverted and less socially skilled on the whole than the general population (IME). Learning social skills and learning how to be liked will take you so far in life. I cannot overstate this. Being liked can be the difference between "failing to deliver" and "trying hard against impossible odds with learnings that we take to future projects" for the exact same set of facts.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#62
post #41
post #29

I think every except this part paints one picture: > I am getting cold shoulder treatment from everyone else on team But the above paints another. Is there some reason the whole team would change in unison towards you that is related to your manager?

They all know OP is being "managed out" i.e. constructive dismissal?

Managing out isn't necessarily the same as constructive dismissal. It often just means (intentionally) sidelining someone so they get the hint. If you're self-sufficient and don't mind finding other things to do with your time, that game doesn't work very well. That's when you might get invited to a chat to negotiate a payout to leave (not sure if this is legal in Canada). Might be worth hanging in there for this, or just bail now.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#63
Others have commented on your situation, I have advice for managers:

   - Never stop 1:1s without explanation.
   - Never stop 1:1s without transition. Every employee needs continual 1:1 meeting time. This is for them, not for you.
   - Directly communicate about changes like the ones mentioned here. The information vacuum will be filled: any info you leave out will be created with gossip / assumptions.
There's more factors involved in your decision to stay or leave, but your manager definitely broke some pretty basic ground rules. Here's how I see it: You don't work for your manager, your manager should work for you.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#64

Listen, there’s an unfortunate lesson to be learned here. Job hoppers earn a lot more, over time. It sounds like it’s time to go. Perhaps there’s another department you could move to, as well? Otherwise, time to spend a weekend or two on Leetcode and then wrangle up some interviews. I suspect something else is going on here, and without further details, I have to assume that leaving to a higher-paying job would be be…

1000% this. You should never stay at one job longer than 5 years, and I think 3 years per job is probably optimal. There are people that will tell you that "job hopping" will catch up with you, but those people are dead wrong.

Maybe I'm in a bubble, but it'd never occur to me that 3-year stints is a strike against you. That's just normal—company wants you longer than 3 years, they can pay for it, if not, well, they know what happens. Having one or two 5ish-year ones in your history, once you've got enough for that to be possible, does probably help some though.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#65
Having this conversation with your “boss” or whoever you’ve temporality assigned authority over you and your life would be a great start.

What do you want? Communicate that, clearly and without making them wrong.

Better if you can understand what your boss and company are wanting to accomplish and avoid, and then showing them that the most direct way to get that is by giving you what you want.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#66
Sounds like you have two legit gripes. Not enough pay and not getting assigned lead roles. You have to complain to your manager about both. Maybe you will get one or the other. If you get none, well, then ask why not. Get an honest assessment about why. And do an honest assessment about why this guy might be better than you. Maybe you just have a bad manager or a manager that values other things.

I had a similar experience. New guy came in. Was not as good of a developer, got less done, but manager liked him better. I complained, and got more pay while other guy got promotion. I was better at getting shit done, new guy was better at communicating, plain and simple, and manager liked that better. Story of my life.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#67
post #60
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harsh reality could be that they are not happy with the op and their performance, and in a cowardly fashion not expressing it honestly to them. That could be the case and it could be worth introspecting on that.

In this case it has nothing to do with the OPs performance and everything to do with their own poor leadership being reflected back to them.

Note the verbiage: he was told he was "the best engineer". That might well be true even though nobody could stand him as a person.

Considering how nobody is lifting a finger to help him, I reckon nobody else particularly enjoyed having him around, but couldn't get rid of him because of their reliance on his technical prowess.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#68
Quit. Been there myself, and it became obvious what my manager was upto, i helped the new team members get upto speed just like you, and taught them everything i knew about the product, but along with that, i also quit the organization. I knew this wasn't the kinda workplace i wanted to be in. I didn't receive a single hike or promotion for 3+ years, even though i was considered critical to the team before the arrival of the new team members (whom i eventually trained).

I raised concerns about my stagnation and brought up issues with the team and also confronted about the new team members getting personally trained on the product by me without showing me a roadmap for myself to get to the next level. He was acting smart i felt, and then eventually decided to move on.

Once i quit, i was offered ridiculous sums of money to withdraw my resignation however, i didn't accept the counter offer and left the place. Post my resignation, a lot of people resigned from that team, and subsequently that manager was fired (i came to know after i had left the org).

Re: Ask HN: Looking for advice on my situation at work?

#69
I'm closing on 25 years of being a programmer, some of them being a manager, and, on top of that, worked in other industries... through all these years I've met very few good programmers. Probably less than 10, maybe significantly less than 10. I've never met good managers. The spectrum in management seems to be from "passable" to "what a train-wreck!".

So... it sucks to be in your position, but... it will happen again. It sucks to miss the benefits of working in the same place for a long time, but it also sucks to have a toxic environment to work in.

One thing I never tried in my career is to start my own business. I'm too afraid and repulsed by the need to do accounting, beg for sponsorship and deal with people in general. But, that's me. Many people seem to like that, or at least not to mind it as much. I'm mentioning this as just one more option on the menu, not the solution to your situation. One thing I'm sure of: the more I was my own boss (i.e. progressing towards the management), the less I had to worry about the kind of interactions you are facing. It never goes away, of course, but the most petty and vengeful people are somehow always the lowest level of management in any organization. It gets better if you are just a grunt or the more you progress up the hierarchy, especially in big corporations where nobody really cares about much the higher up in the hierarchy they are.

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