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Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

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Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#61

Post by gambiting »

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #15
powersnail wrote: post #3

Is there any specific examples of “everything”? Apart from robocalls and junk mails, I don’t think I’ve personally experienced a notable amount of scams. When I buy something, I almost always get what I buy, except a few incidents of lost delivery, where the orders was promptly refunded or reissued.

Amazon is now filled with pseudobrands ( https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/style/amazon-trademark-co... ), commingling legitimate sellers' inventory with counterfeit products, and outright fraudulent products (try searching for 2TB flash drives). AliExpress allows sellers to ship you fraudulent products like a "USB3 1080p 4k capture card" which is only USB2 with a blue cable and drops frames, then when you request a…

It honestly seems like American only problem though. So many commenters mention it but I have never experienced it here in UK(despite ordering a total of 500 items from Amazon in the last two years) nor do I know anyone who has.

I think one or two orders were late by a day, Amazon just gave me a month of prime as compensation each time.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#62

Post by andrelaszlo »

nailer wrote: post #50
hiddencost wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. That's a straw man based on ignorance. The left puts effort into responsibility and care for community. Why do you think the right advocates for dismantling social services and the left champions them?

The left champions not working, rather than social care. In the UK it’s common to hear ‘I’m on benefits’ as an excuse in itself, rather than ‘I am disabled’ or ‘I am elderly’ or some other legitimate reason for receiving money.

I wonder what you hear then. To me it sounds like "I'm out of options". It makes me think of this aid program that gave people in really poor countries money instead of food. With money they could of course buy food, but also save to improve their life in general, for example by improving their housing, buying a goat, sending their children to school, etc. Previously, they were just dependent on the food, medicines, and whatever was provided by the system and the situation rarely changed for the better.

I think it's similar, at least where I live. With a better support system, people seem to be less likely to get dependent on it. Seems like a good thing to do in the long run, even if you just think about it economically.

Unless, perhaps, you need a class of people that are in a sort of benefits bondage. I don't really want to think that this is by design though.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#63

Post by gambiting »

user-extended wrote: post #60
churchill wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this pet theory that no matter what goes wrong in the world - whether it's a pandemic, climate change, or the threat of nuclear annihilation, HNers will find a way of blaming it on housing prices. Do you all live in California?

I don't live in California, I work at a non-IT company in a country of Europe in a non-major city. It's a global problem, it doesn't matter where you go. People and companies have an absolute fetish with real state that makes young people like me give up with hope. What is work good for if you're just a slave to the system? Right now, it'd take me 7 years of salary JUST to afford the initial down payment for a house.…

My sister just bought a house in Manchester(one of the larger UK cities) for £150k - she only needed a 5% deposit(so £7.5k) - she was able to save that within two years, working as a (rather poorly paid) photographer.

I myself bought a house in Newcastle(not major, but not a tiny city) two years ago for £180k, we needed a 10% but me and my wife are in IT so we saved that in a year.

My point is that yes - it's a global problem, but I honestly don't think everyone everywhere needs to save up for 7 years just to get a deposit. Maybe if you live in London you do, but elsewhere? Meh. Basic 3 bed houses are not so crazy expensive in most places, at least here in UK.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#64

Post by powersnail »

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #15
powersnail wrote: post #3

Is there any specific examples of “everything”? Apart from robocalls and junk mails, I don’t think I’ve personally experienced a notable amount of scams. When I buy something, I almost always get what I buy, except a few incidents of lost delivery, where the orders was promptly refunded or reissued.

Amazon is now filled with pseudobrands ( https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/style/amazon-trademark-co... ), commingling legitimate sellers' inventory with counterfeit products, and outright fraudulent products (try searching for 2TB flash drives). AliExpress allows sellers to ship you fraudulent products like a "USB3 1080p 4k capture card" which is only USB2 with a blue cable and drops frames, then when you request a…

Oh, I see. I wasn’t thinking of low quality products when I read OP’s question. The mention of pyramid scheme makes me think more of the kind of scam that deals with money directly, for instance, IT support scams, bank scams, etc. I thought that OP was being surrounded by such nefarious actors.

Among the things you mentioned and addressed by the article you linked, I consider counterfeit and fake reviews to be scammy.

Pseudo brands themselves, to me, are just shit products. The fact that they use a unique, random letter combination means they aren’t trying to impersonate anyone else. Huge pain in the ass for real brands, though, having to compete with these flooding cheap goods.

And Amazon has never refused to issue a refund to me if the product is defective or of poor quality.

I’ve never used Aliexpress, so I can’t say anything about that.

Kickstarter I’ve also never used, but I feel like if they legitimately tried but failed, it’s not a scam. If they set out to take the cash and run, that’s certainly a scam.

(To be honest, I just don’t understand the idea of “backing” a kick starter campaign. If I want to back something, I’d want my share of profit when the project succeed, or at least my money back with interest. If there’s no share and no pay back, it’s not really “backing”, it’s just pre-buying something you haven’t seen, possibly at a discount. That feels to me like taking an unnecessary risk without much of a reward.)

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#65

Post by John23832 »

hiddencost wrote: post #45
John23832 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with this. The active removal of any (even semblance) of community in society, to be replaced with radical individualism, has been horribly detrimental. There is no shame, there is no right or wrong, there is no responsibility to others. And this extends to both sides of the political spectrum. The right glorify this "Don't step on me", "I don't care about others that don't exactly fit into my in-grou…

Meh. That's a straw man based on ignorance. The left puts effort into responsibility and care for community. Why do you think the right advocates for dismantling social services and the left champions them?

I'm not ignorant at all. I live in NYC (the largest "community" in the country) which has the largest, most systematically effective social services system in the country. It's one thing I appreciate most about the city, other than the subway.

There is such a thing as too much of a good thing (or good things used to advance perverse incentives).

Too Much of a Good Thing: Methadone and "clean needle" clinics on 125th and Brooklyn under the guis of "harm reduction". The goal should be to reduce drug usage. Not make a shopping mall for dealers and zombies. Another is the total hands off approach of the mentally ill and aggressive homeless on the subways and on the streets.

Good Things Use To Advance Perverse Incentives: The entire homeless industrial complex in California, which does absolutely nothing but syphon money to these homeless "nonprofits". I lived in both San Jose and LA and frankly the situation was addressed in a maddeningly regressive fashion.

You sometimes have to ask yourself WHY someone is championing something. Very often it's not because of altruism.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#66

Post by John23832 »

gfxgirl wrote: post #43
John23832 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with this. The active removal of any (even semblance) of community in society, to be replaced with radical individualism, has been horribly detrimental. There is no shame, there is no right or wrong, there is no responsibility to others. And this extends to both sides of the political spectrum. The right glorify this "Don't step on me", "I don't care about others that don't exactly fit into my in-grou…

Your painting the right as "no taxes" I think they'd paint as "quit wasting money". As an example, SF has the highest tax revenue per capita in the USA https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/slideshows/us-cities-with... So why is it so dysfunctional? My guess is the right would say because so much is wasted on the wrong things. Note: I'm not saying the right is correct. I'm only suggesting a different interpretation of t…

Everyone thinks that something they don't want to pay for is a "waste of money". When that something that you want to quit spending money on can be characterized as "other people who I don't identify with", you get the right.

SF is a mess because of liberal mismanagement (I say that as someone who identifies as left). Spending money at massive scale without asking the people you're spending money on to fix something in society (whether it's their own actions, or something that they are responsible for). SF went from a 80B surplus to a 15B deficit... and what get it gain from that? How is the city better... It's not.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#67

Post by andrelaszlo »

BulgarianIdiot wrote: post #18

Society is visibly decomposing before our eyes. You can tell because trust no longer exists. And those who trust, get burned, because they're taken advantage of. The issue is without trust, society does not exist. What's coming is frankly scary to me.

Maybe a big part of the issue is not initially that there's no trust, but the sentiment being spread that you'll get screwed if you trust people. It seems like the cheapest way to really undermine a society if you were so inclined, especially in our age.

Most people I meet are trustworthy but on Facebook I get the message, from my own neighbors, that it's dangerous to even go outside.

Think about how trust is built. If you really believe it's something precious (I do), think about what your part is in creating more or less of it.

I admit, it's often very hard to take the first step, to be willing to look like the naive sucker, or to try to see the humanity in someone who's angry and, I guess, often scared just like me.

It's pretty easy to not say things like "society is falling apart", "you can't trust anyone these days", and things like that though. At least out loud. Then it seems like it's easier to see signs of the opposite being true.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#68

Post by user-extended »

gambiting wrote: post #63
user-extended wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in California, I work at a non-IT company in a country of Europe in a non-major city. It's a global problem, it doesn't matter where you go. People and companies have an absolute fetish with real state that makes young people like me give up with hope. What is work good for if you're just a slave to the system? Right now, it'd take me 7 years of salary JUST to afford the initial down payment for a house.…

My sister just bought a house in Manchester(one of the larger UK cities) for £150k - she only needed a 5% deposit(so £7.5k) - she was able to save that within two years, working as a (rather poorly paid) photographer. I myself bought a house in Newcastle(not major, but not a tiny city) two years ago for £180k, we needed a 10% but me and my wife are in IT so we saved that in a year. My point is that yes - it's a globa…

>she only needed a 5% deposit(so £7.5k)

LMAO, this is not normal anywhere else in Europe. Also, I bet she either has a lot of money saved up somewhere else, had her mortgage cosigned by someone else with a lot of income, etc. this is not normal at all.

I am not from Germany, but take Germany as an example: https://n26.com/en-eu/blog/cost-of-buying-a-house

"A good rule of thumb is to have at least 35% of the estimated cost. Germany: German residents can generally borrow up to 80% of the assessed property value, but non-residents usually get the short end of the stick. They have to put up 40–45% of the property value as down payment."

>two years ago for £180k

The average UK price house is 256k... https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/117DF/production...

You lucked out, arguably.

>My point is that yes - it's a global problem, but I honestly don't think everyone everywhere needs to save up for 7 years just to get a deposit. Maybe if you live in London you do, but elsewhere? Meh. Basic 3 bed houses are not so crazy expensive in most places, at least here in UK.

I make 12k after taxes and before other expenses... what are you talking about. And I am lucky not to pay rent with a terrible commute because I live with my parents.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#69

Post by cmoski »

rowtheway wrote: post #54
hiddencost wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. That's a straw man based on ignorance. The left puts effort into responsibility and care for community. Why do you think the right advocates for dismantling social services and the left champions them?

Broadly speaking, the community-oriented left in places like the US support bureaucratic government welfare programs, while community-oriented conservatives support more organic, often religious, and non-government charitable organizations. My preference runs toward the latter, for reasons best explained by John Carmack: https://archive.ph/0tHg4

"more organic, often religious, and non-government charitable organizations"

Or none at all. Or ones for people in a select group.

Most people live in towns, cities, states and nations, not communities. State and national governments cannot rely on the good of the neighbour. Larger, more equitable systems need to be put in place.

Re: Ask HN: Since when is everything a scam?

#70

Post by freedom2099 »

rowtheway wrote: post #54
hiddencost wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. That's a straw man based on ignorance. The left puts effort into responsibility and care for community. Why do you think the right advocates for dismantling social services and the left champions them?

Broadly speaking, the community-oriented left in places like the US support bureaucratic government welfare programs, while community-oriented conservatives support more organic, often religious, and non-government charitable organizations. My preference runs toward the latter, for reasons best explained by John Carmack: https://archive.ph/0tHg4

If you don’t see the issue with “often religious” then nothing I say can change your mind! Religion as a moral compass is horrible! Religious communities are often the most toxic ones!
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