Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

news.ycombinator.com

61–70 of 185 posts

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#61
post #45

HDMI Switching like that takes long because there is a EDID negotiation going on between the minitor and the input devices. If you want to switch fast and often your best bet is getting an HDMI switcher that is basically always connected to the monitor and both sources and then toggles between the two. Beware of the supported resolutions and framerates. A cheap hack would also be to connect your second source to the…

Even with one of the fancy KVM switches that were recommended here my switching isn’t instant. It did go down from 10-20 seconds of flickering to +/- 2 seconds though.

May not be worth it if you are already at 4s though.

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#62
post #53

OK, remember when modems were like EEEEEEEkRrRrRrRrRrRrRbaBONGbaBONG.... That was handshaking, and it was how modems figured out which speeds and protocols each other supported so they could figure out how fast to transfer data and how to encode it. Monitors are kind of the same. There's handshaking that goes on each time you connect a monitor to a video source. Like (and I'm totally making this up): - Hi, I'm an AMD…

> Monitors are kind of the same. There's handshaking that goes on each time you connect a monitor to a video source.

If the connector is high bandwidth enough to send hundreds of thousands of pixels 60 times a second, how can it possibly be so slow to send a few bytes of handshake or EDID data?

Handshakes should be happening nearly instantly. You can complete opening a TCP connection to the other side of the world in a fraction of the time it takes to switch input on the average monitor.

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#63
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no price listed for this switch. How much does it cost?

I have a few tesmart HDMI switchers are they are fairly reasonably priced (~$100) and switch decently fast (Under 1 second usually). Occasionally I have to switch the unit off/on if it gets confused, once a quarter or so. There's a switch on the front of the unit so it's not terrible. They also support hot key switching, so my hands don't need to leave the keyboard to switch, which is nice.

> They also support hot key switching, so my hands don't need to leave the keyboard to switch, which is nice.

Note that the keyboard interception is less than stellar, so it’s equally possible your keyboard just won’t work correctly when plugged into their magic port. My copy-paste is impossible when plugged in (well, dropped 2 out of 5 times, which might as well be).

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#64
post #50

Unrelated: OP, how do you like the U2723QE? Been trying to decide on pulling the trigger on two of them recently.

I've got a U3223QE which is the same just larger. The screen itself looks really nice, its bright, no complaints there. The stand is pretty good, reasonably tidy. My only complaint is that when it said USB-C hub I expected it to have USB-C ports for peripherals and it doesn't, only USB-A ports. My older LG has USB-C ports, so I know its possible. It's annoying because as more and more stuff switches to USB-C the only…

Just in case you missed it, the U3223QE does have one USB-C port for peripherals. See [0], bottom right of the image.

[0] https://i.dell.com/is/image/DellContent/content/dam/ss2/prod...

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#65

There are multiple input (5xHDMI) same output (1x HDMI) switches on the net, which feeds one input of the monitor and you can change the source on the adapter with a round robin button. It's almost instant. Another cool feature is whenever a new input source is detected it automatically feeds that to your monitor. I haven't seen the configuration you need, but if you can use adapters to convert each source to HDMI, i…

switching between 2 inputs would take between 1x and 4x (x being the time to switch to the next input) depending if it is from A to B or B to A.

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#66
I was annoyed by this too. My solution was to buy a 49" samsung monitor and have either 50:50 or 1/3:2/3 split on the screen so I can see both at once. If I only want one active I can change the source but this has the flicker/delay as noted. I run Barrier software on both to move one keyboard and mouse between the screens.

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#67
post #10

There are hardware limitations that make what you're asking for impossible. Use software solutions if you actually need instant switch. But you probably don't.

What are the hardware limitations? Surely this is possible if there was investment and interest in making this work? Or do the protocols really not allow this?

Most of the delay is I/O bound. Handshaking happens over the Display Data Channel (DDC) which is a protocol over I²C (a two-wire comunication bus). HDMI/DP/DVI have 2 dedicated wires inside the cable for this, USB-C has to switch over to use differential signaling on pins A8 and B8, and then switch back after communication is done.

The bandwidth of that bus is small indeed, but most of the latency comes from artificial delays and error recovery in code: monitor is sending a message to host then sleeping 30ms to make sure the reply is ready, host doing the same thing, and this happens multiple times to negotiate pixel clock, signal timing, colors, resolution, additional features like suspend/reset/HDR/overscan etc.)

You can see how in the MCCS specification [1] both host and display entrypoints for communication start with a delay: https://shots.panaitiu.com/e8D7tQ

You can also see how that looks in Lunar's DDC code [2] [3].

For now, it's incredible that we actually have such a standard as DDC and most monitors work with most devices. A coordinated effort between monitor vendors and laptop/PC/GPU manufacturers into creating another faster standard with modern technology seems out of the question. But maybe with the advent of Thunderbolt this may change in the future.

[1] https://files.lunar.fyi/mccs.pdf

[2] https://github.com/alin23/Lunar/blob/master/Lunar/DDC/DDC.c#... : Delay on requesting data from monitor

[3] https://github.com/alin23/Lunar/blob/master/Lunar/DDC/DDC.c#... : Delay on communication error before retry

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#68

You'll need a fancy KVM switch that does more than merely acting much like a physical switch would. Something like this should probably work: https://www.rextron.com/product-4K-2-Port-Full-Frame-PBP-KVM... Edit: The one above is merely the first one I found, not a recommendation. Be aware that such things may incur extra latency, since it's not just passing signals through, but rather processing them and repackaging…

As an aside: does anyone know the deal with Rextron, Extron, and Crestron? What’s going on with the names there?

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#69
post #53

OK, remember when modems were like EEEEEEEkRrRrRrRrRrRrRbaBONGbaBONG.... That was handshaking, and it was how modems figured out which speeds and protocols each other supported so they could figure out how fast to transfer data and how to encode it. Monitors are kind of the same. There's handshaking that goes on each time you connect a monitor to a video source. Like (and I'm totally making this up): - Hi, I'm an AMD…

> Monitors are kind of the same. There's handshaking that goes on each time you connect a monitor to a video source. If the connector is high bandwidth enough to send hundreds of thousands of pixels 60 times a second, how can it possibly be so slow to send a few bytes of handshake or EDID data? Handshakes should be happening nearly instantly. You can complete opening a TCP connection to the other side of the world in…

There's a major difference between the data-plane (the lanes where frames go from the signal source to the display) and the control-plane (the command and control channel that is bidirectional and used to discover a peer and negotiate settings).

The former is indeed very high speed, in the order of gigabits per second (up to 48gbps in later iterations), whereas the latter can seem ancient in comparison - 500bps to 115.2kbps - several orders of magnitude slower. The reason is that while the high data rate bus is handled by powerful, dedicated hardware (GPUs and ASICs/FPGAs), the control plane is usually done by micro-controllers (or otherwise lower-power devices) that are responsible for general management of the display. Sure, it would be nice if they had more powerful hardware and a faster bus, but those changes usually aren't what people are shopping for and so the standards committees aren't pushing makers to make these changes...

Re: Ask HN: Can you recommend an “instant-switch” Monitor? Does one exist?

#70

This is one thing I really miss about analog tv. You could switch channels as fast as you could press the button. Everything now is so slow.

Yes! I remember running my finger down the column of electrical contact switches and changing the channel at 60 fps. "brrrrrrip!"
Post reply on HN