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Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

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61–70 of 274 posts

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#61

Can you make a test move for just a few months and see if you like it? Employment aside, there are other things that matters when you change countries / continents. As an European, I wouldn't like to move permanently to the US. If you are making enough money in Europe, I don't see much incentives to move to US.

Interesting work? A love for liberty? Less crab mentality? Sorry, as a somewhat disgruntled European I couldn’t resist.

What does "love for liberty" mean to you?

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#62
post #16
post #7

Hello there, I live in Berlin now and used to live in the United States. My family is there, and I go back to the east coast of the US often. The degenerating and dystopian quality of the United States is difficult to overstate, but almost impossible to capture verbally. Whatever one cause attributes to the systematic breakdown of the US, it is difficult to deny the realities of the decline -- massive alcohol and nar…

That's not a problem if you have money.

Depends what you mean by "have money". Plenty of small business owners with a few million dollars in savings and assets have had to liquidate them to pay for healthcare for themselves or their family members. It can cost over $1 million to survive a heart attack in the US, and the disability of oneself or family members can easily cost millions of dollars in healthcare expenses over a lifetime.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#63

Lots of anti American comments in this thread, so I’ll attempt to actually answer your question. Background - I’m an American who moved abroad for 12 years (UK) and returned after Brexit. Salaries are much higher than the EU. But in some cities cost of living is high. Coming from Berlin, you’ll have an easier time finding an apartment, but it will be expensive. I’d expect to pay $2000 to $2500 per month for a decent…

> anti American comments in this thread It's weird that describing things accurately is considered "anti-American." The question was answered multiple times though: If he does get a higher salary, much is going to be wasted on making up for deficiencies of the US that may be invisible to a German (especially wrt. health, food quality, security, social services, etc.)

It is not weird. It is normal. Billions of dollars spent for propaganda of American dream. And it is global. This is the power of an utopian idea. People need belief in the success. Critical thinking was never popular, but nowadays is the exception of the rule.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#64

Lots of anti American comments in this thread, so I’ll attempt to actually answer your question. Background - I’m an American who moved abroad for 12 years (UK) and returned after Brexit. Salaries are much higher than the EU. But in some cities cost of living is high. Coming from Berlin, you’ll have an easier time finding an apartment, but it will be expensive. I’d expect to pay $2000 to $2500 per month for a decent…

> anti American comments in this thread It's weird that describing things accurately is considered "anti-American." The question was answered multiple times though: If he does get a higher salary, much is going to be wasted on making up for deficiencies of the US that may be invisible to a German (especially wrt. health, food quality, security, social services, etc.)

The top comment is about as anti-American as it can get. Apparently we’re all drug addicts and burning our own houses to the ground.

It’s important to generalize for the sake of the OPs questions, but saying nonsense doesn’t help anyone.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#65
post #41
post #7

Hello there, I live in Berlin now and used to live in the United States. My family is there, and I go back to the east coast of the US often. The degenerating and dystopian quality of the United States is difficult to overstate, but almost impossible to capture verbally. Whatever one cause attributes to the systematic breakdown of the US, it is difficult to deny the realities of the decline -- massive alcohol and nar…

This is hilariously inaccurate and essentially a stereotype perceived from the Reddit front page. Europe is experiencing legions of issues including runaway inflation, a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable, a migrant crisis that is causing their own racial issues that they pretend don’t exist but are causing huge polarization and the rise of right-wing parties, a business climate th…

Europe is not a single country and even the EU doesn't cover all of it, so it's kind of hard to generalise.

Many of the things you mentioned are not generally true of Switzerland, for example. And OTOH, in Germany, the far right has stagnated and doesn't seem to make further inroads, large companies do continue to be successful but there are especially a lot of mid-sized companies (what's this obsession with growth at all costs?), etc. (let's not forget that one of the mRNA vaccines was developed here).

Yes, there are problems, sometimes even major ones, but I do think you're stereotyping just as much as GP.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#66
post #4

Two neighbors, ex-USA Citizens have give up the Citizenship to cut their tie with the IRS... They often say "America is here" (France). IME if you plan a short migration for a project, witch means go, earn enough money, come back and you do not need ANY KIND of health services in the foreseeable meantime it's ok. If not... USA level of services is third world compared to EU, bureaucracy is byzantine, surely you might…

Healthcare is complicated as mentioned, but I imagine his wife will get family health insurance. Despite all the true horror stories, the US has top notch health services if you are properly insured and have reserve funds for the inevitable "gotchas" in the system. Don't even dream of showing up without health insurance - the EU beats the US hands down in this scenario. No comments about needing a lawyer to subscribe…

Do family plans still frequently have extra charges for spouses who could get their own plan (via employer or by passing some base income level) but don't? This could cause issues if freelancing.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#67
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilariously inaccurate and essentially a stereotype perceived from the Reddit front page. Europe is experiencing legions of issues including runaway inflation, a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable, a migrant crisis that is causing their own racial issues that they pretend don’t exist but are causing huge polarization and the rise of right-wing parties, a business climate th…

> including runaway inflation The same as everywhere... due to a war and pandemic . > a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable Completely false. Do you even read our budgets? Your debt-to-GDB was literally 3x ours last year. European countries aren't even allowed to deficit spend more than a few percent (which is what got Greece in trouble, for example.) > they pretend don’t exist I'm…

I find lectures about American society from Europeans, as the parent comment did, exceedingly ironic and misinformed considering the same issues plague both sides. Even more so as American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation.

The grass is always greener but I prefer it here.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#68
Do not go. Here's why:

1) You have no network in the US. You will have to start from scratch. Remember how you started. Multiply difficulty level by 2. And you're not going to be any younger.

2) Salaries for perm positions being "significantly lower" in the US than in EU. This nullifies gains from moving to the US. Add cost of moving everything over long range by plane/cargo ship.

3) Healthcare cost. My friend asked me once about cost of dental care in Ireland (where I live now). I replied 'it depends, between 30-60 euro'. He was quoted 13000 dollars for one tooth job. Think about this double hard, you're 50 and you won't get any younger.

4) Friends and your peers will stay in the EU. You won't see any of them for months and years. Factor in plane ticket prices. You won't be coming home to visit family for Christmas.

Just few things from top of my head, but I think they are important.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#69
You have not provided enough context for anyone to give you useful advice. We would need to know your hourly or daily rate and to basically see your resume to have any chance of giving a rate range. There is also the issue of taxes which make comparisons less straightforward.

That said, I think you can generally expect IT pay to be higher in US major cities than almost anywhere in the EU. The US also has the concept of consulting. That runs the range, you could be working for a body shop agency for no more pay than a salary where the agency takes up to 50% of the client’s rate. You could also be an independent consultant where you run your own company and directly market and contract with your clients for 2 or 3 times the pay. The latter takes a personal network and a reputation. If your current clients pay you well, why not just properly structure things and work for them from the US?

Besides pay, there is the issue of cost of living. You could have the option to live in a fairly rural area and commute into Princeton. Cost of living can be fairly low in the US outside major cities or some of the highest in the world within them. It is a big country with much variance.

One last thing: you will find that the US is basically still the barbarian lands in comparison to Europe, history has a long arm. That can be good or bad depending on you, but don’t be shocked when you find out that the country is bordering on anarchy in comparison to Germany, expect it.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anti American comments in this thread It's weird that describing things accurately is considered "anti-American." The question was answered multiple times though: If he does get a higher salary, much is going to be wasted on making up for deficiencies of the US that may be invisible to a German (especially wrt. health, food quality, security, social services, etc.)

The top comment is about as anti-American as it can get. Apparently we’re all drug addicts and burning our own houses to the ground. It’s important to generalize for the sake of the OPs questions, but saying nonsense doesn’t help anyone.

That's what I'm talking about, it's just a completely accurate description and you're freaking out saying it said things that it didn't say! Zero things in it are false, but what you're claiming is:

> massive alcohol and narcotic dependency issues

This is a fact and it's not "[you're] all drug addicts and burning your own houses to the ground."

The only way you can get upset is to straw man it really hard.

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