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Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

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61–68 of 68 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#61
Is the developer paid to be friendly to users? If not they likely wont be, dealing with users isn't fun, especially as most of their complaints lies out of your control. So developers working for big companies or developers working on free open source projects likely wont be very friendly. Developers who work on a project they try to sell will likely be friendlier though, at least until the project becomes so successful that they no longer need your money or they realize that you don't intend to pay for the fix.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#62

Another good example from the game industry is Player Unknown's Battlegrounds. The developers there seem to be completely tone deaf to the issues that the gamers and streamers have brought up these past few years. They claim to look at the data to make decisions but they seem to only optimize for maximizing income instead of improving gameplay issues so that people don't get frustrated. Or they're measuring the wrong…

Maximizing profit is literally the defining mission of almost all businesses, of which game studios are no special case.

I think it's also questionable whether a generic FPS losing players gradually over many years is really even preventable. People move on from even the best games eventually. I think the only FPS that's even close to durable is CS and it's still losing. In such an environment, you really want to capitalize on demand while you have it.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#63
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would have sleek, performant products that work exactly as intended. And be out of business. A few years later, folks on HN will be waxing nostalgic and wondering why we can't build things like that anymore.

Nope, hopes and dreams. They will end up spending most of the time doing fancy refactoring, designing smart architectures and very well-generalized abstractions with near zero noticeable effects by the end users.

Hence the "and go out of business" part. :)

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#64
post #12

I’m half of these examples (Reddit, Google, Facebook, Twitter, and many more), the user is not the customer. Products will always optimize for the customer and do the bare minimum to maintain their product. The customer is advertisers for these platforms, not users. The users are the product. The other aspect though is that devs don’t test in bad conditions. Most modern dev is done on a top of the line MacBook on a f…

However when you build your next app you already have code you can reuse from your previous app. So the cost goes to zero over N products. Also remember that using a framework has a non-zero learning cost.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#65

[pulls up chair, sits backwards] OK so this is a question I'm arguably qualified to talk about -- I focus on usability and promoting it within a large tech company. The problem that I see a lot is that engineers are not well-versed in what I will call 'imaginative empathy'[1], which, as I define it, is the ability to creatively conceive of end-user needs by reflecting at length on who those people are, what they desi…

The problem seems to be the product managers. Not the software developers. It is the product managers that prioritise the features to be implemented and the UI to go with it.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#66

This is the inevitable result of using proprietary software.

Some of the best software I have ever used was proprietary. Some of the worst software I have ever used was not. Most software (proprietary or not) is average to pretty bad.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#67

[pulls up chair, sits backwards] OK so this is a question I'm arguably qualified to talk about -- I focus on usability and promoting it within a large tech company. The problem that I see a lot is that engineers are not well-versed in what I will call 'imaginative empathy'[1], which, as I define it, is the ability to creatively conceive of end-user needs by reflecting at length on who those people are, what they desi…

The problem seems to be the product managers. Not the software developers. It is the product managers that prioritise the features to be implemented and the UI to go with it.

On paper, yes, this is how the business works.

In practice, I've seen lots of situations where, for want of time and designers, engineers received vague instructions and were mostly left to their own devices.

Engineers were making significant contributions to the design process without noticing; and many of them were, as you might expect, not thoughtful. After all, the coder was being paid to code, right? Not their job.

You might argue that we could fix this by hiring more designers (you should anyway, but not for this reason). But without engineer understanding, you may wind up with a design team micro-managing a team of engineers.

To me, this appears to be a recapitulation of the 'architect-vs-tradesman' dichotomy seen in the building construction industry, with UX experts playing architect, and the engineers playing extremely-well-paid plumber.

Under these circumstances, no engineer wants to build anything unless it's been signed off in quadruplicate, complies with all extant regulations and guidelines, and is exactly like the last 10,000 ones like that we did. At this point, more or less, engineers and designers begin to resent one another.

It's a full-on zugzwang: The engineers begin to think of the designers as dictatorial and unrealistic dreamers who don't know enough about code, and the designers begin to think the engineers are callous boors who, yes, are hostile (or at least indifferent) to the expectable experience of the user. Which is what I take the OP was pointing to.

While other industries may be able to tolerate this kind of vibe, none of the habits of mind and culture that I just described are conducive to anything like a good UX outcome in software development.

Far better is to have engineers who are trained to make good empathic common-sense decisions. This is important for three reasons: First, it frees up design and PM cycles; second, it generates a culture where the engineer is respected as a conceptual contributor to the user's experience, and, thirdly -- and most importantly -- it creates a person who has both design and technical expertise, and can adjudicate tradeoffs between these two things without calling a meeting.

And this third point is important for some relatively deep socioeconomic reasons -- I disagree with Hayek about a lot of things, but he was right about the value of local knowledge. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_knowledge_problem)

An engineer who is in the code every day may well have a better sense of what is possible (and what the tradeoffs may be) than a designer who is not on the front line. That honey-mustard combination is lost entirely on teams where engineers are not also a little bit designers, and designers are not also a little bit engineers. Think of this strategem as a 'local knowledge reuptake inhibitor'.

Thus, the aim of my programme is to create a corps of engineers who, when they see something, say something. But in order to see like a designer, you need imaginative empathy. The heart is the eye.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many developers seem hostile to their users these days?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem seems to be the product managers. Not the software developers. It is the product managers that prioritise the features to be implemented and the UI to go with it.

On paper, yes, this is how the business works. In practice, I've seen lots of situations where, for want of time and designers, engineers received vague instructions and were mostly left to their own devices. Engineers were making significant contributions to the design process without noticing; and many of them were, as you might expect, not thoughtful. After all, the coder was being paid to code , right? Not their…

Yep I do agree with what you are saying. Developers are making lots of decisions every day that will impact the quality of the software. So the better they are at understanding and emphasise the end user, the better the software will be. However currently the incentives in most companies are not aligned that way. Developers are rewarded for fixing bugs and adding features. I will also say that dealing with users can be extremely difficult. Most users are reasonable, but it only takes a few self-entitled sociopaths to turn your work experience into hell. So I perfectly understand developers who avoid dealing directly with end users. Why risk the abuse when they don’t have to?
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