Ask HN: Can payment processors like Stripe and their fees be avoided?

Friendly fraud can be faught. Both person's are known to the payment processor. You are still ignoring that it's the customer who decides how to pay. That's why a vendor won't pick crypto when the goal is selling products as in e-commerce.

Moving goal posts?

And you're talking about jobs in fan/artist investing now?

Honestly, i think that could have a chance. Same as Blockchain for voting rights for soccer clubs.

I already said that's possible and it's not related to the topic at hand:

> You're examples are similar to crypto investments, which is almost the only thing people would spend their crypto on.

But if you think any of both are even remotely related to the OP's post, than that's just idiotic.

We aren't using such a service yet at any of the established businesses I work with but the intent is to shift at the earliest reasonable opportunity.

Migrating is not trivial if you have an existing customer base who are already signed up via other payment service providers. A merchant of record will typically need all end customers to sign up personally and thereby enter into a sale contract with them and not with you. That means you can't just transfer existing payment details and authorisations the way you can between different PSPs processing card payments for you. And if you don't migrate everyone, you still have to handle all the relevant tax admin anyway and lose much of the benefit of working with a MoR.

So the new SaaS I was working on was planning to use a MoR from the start, while the established B2C business will probably wait for convenient opportunities like launching new products and retiring old ones to make the shift to minimise churn.

I don't know if a final decision has been made about which service the new SaaS will use. Among my personal network Paddle has had positive feedback and I think that's probably what that business will end up going with. I know there were some concerns about the legal arrangements and Paddle's terms and I don't know if they've been addressed yet.

> Friendly fraud can be faught. Both person's are known to the payment processor. You are still ignoring that it's the customer who decides how to pay.

The merchant is highly likely going to lose more money towards fighting friendly fraud on top of the chargeback fees regardless if the customer knowingly paid for the service, product or not or if both are known to the payment processor. That is irrelevant since it is the bank who decides who wins the dispute and the payment processor sides with them, even when the bank cannot determine if the chargeback is fraudulent or not.

> That's why a vendor won't pick crypto when the goal is selling products as in e-commerce.

So you mean 'running an online store, selling something digital or physical' as in e-commerce?

Didn't stop 'this vendor' from selling limited edition shoes to its customers. [0] nor did it stop this vendor either [1]. Once again, OpenSea, Rarible, etc selling NFTs like domain names, etc. Nor did it stop merchants using Coinbase commerce.

Since you keep forgetting, do I need to repeat the same examples again?

> And you're talking about jobs in fan/artist investing now?

This is you:

>> You should ask HN if there is any business owner that cares, lol.

It seems you forgot already? It was only because YOU asked here on HN for 'any' business owner. I didn't need to ask given this one seems to care.

> But if you think any of both are even remotely related to the OP's post, than that's just idiotic.

So '...running an online store, selling something digital or physical' is not what the OP said? Neither it being related to 'e-commerce' via buying and selling NFTs, domain names, shoes and clothes? That is idiotic because it involves cryptocurrencies, especially those that have low fees?

It is clear that you are still having a hard time accepting that a new generation of merchants and customers are accepting and using cryptocurrencies for payments 'globally' rather than you sitting there saying 'Nothing fundamentally has changed since 2017' or 'Many ecoms added support in 2017 and removed that functionality again.' and 'But it's all going away when BTC drops again.'.

[0] https://rtfkt.com/home

[1] https://pacsun.com

> Friendly fraud is allowed to sue in court. The beauty of know your customer.

So cryptocurrency merchants like Coinbase Commerce, BitPay have no KYC checks either?

> What's the proof? What's your point?

Forgotten?

>>> Many ecoms added support in 2017 and removed that functionality again.

>> That's why a vendor won't pick crypto when the goal is selling products as in e-commerce.

So Pacsun is not e-commerce and they are not accepting cryptocurrencies? Why have they (and many others) added it then, even after 2017?

> became a useless site?...

Useless to who? Nike? So the interest is not there and it is still not 'e-commerce' because it isn't 'normal' e-commerce somehow? Oh dear. Maybe Ebay in 1995 is not normal 'e-commerce' because of the purchase price of the bids of limited edition goods.

> I think I have plenty of e-commerce experience ;)

If you did, you wouldn't need to try denying and narrowing your complaints or making absolute comments of 'what you really meant' because someone said use Bitcoin Cash? After every example given, Why change and continue to narrow the definitions of 'e-commerce' in the first place? Then make an absurd correlation between the price of Bitcoin in 2017 vs the price of a stablecoin in which that already addressed your outdated complaints.

Is that why you continue to deny the existence of cryptocurrency payments after 2017 by 'never looking back' but only reading single datapoints and headlines you agree with?

> And please. If you want to refer articles, refer articles where crypto payments were used and researched.

And why would I use that source if the study of users is limited to a single country for you to make the case that 'no-one uses their crypto' globally? You have done the same mistake with all your sources and estimates, thus making your complaint(s) beyond invalid.

So you are telling me the overall trend and interest is going down, and the merchant such as the OP still cannot accept USDC and I cannot do this right now since you said 'nothing has changed'? Are you still stuck in 2017 or are you prolonging your appeal to ignorance?

> You're just reliving the past without acknowledging the end-result.

So that means 'this time' you know exactly what happens after this 'useless FOMO going on' crashes again? So Stripe, Coinbase, Shopify, BitPay, Circle.com are getting into something with low interest in the future because you rushed to Google Trends since you don't have any definitive sources on stablecoins, only Bitcoin? I never mentioned or argued for payments using Bitcoin in the first place and still no-one here has definitive and extensive sources on this for payments with stablecoins as it is extremely early and given the absence of clearer regulations on this as already admitted by you: [0]

'A lot of it is still going to uncharted territory.' [0]

> Note: digital currencies from countries is not what i consider any of the current solutions too. It will be a unrelated coin to the current existing ones.

And what is this 'unrelated coin to the current existing ones' you are mentioning? Do you have sources of its properties or are you speculating like everyone else?

It is another way of saying 'It may or may not be a stablecoin' So no-one knows until the regulations around this are clearer.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29736645