Ask HN: What do engineers never talk to their bosses about, but should?

Yes! This is exactly the kind of coloring that really helps fill in the gaps in your first comment and helps me understand what you mean. So, I don’t have solutions for you, but I can still share my reactions from my own perspective.

You are experiencing a serious and legitimate culture issue, and I know it exists and happens inside some companies. My impression based on hearsay is that this is worse in financial companies than many other kinds, but I know it happens elsewhere. I’m not convinced that speaking to your manager is a viable avenue to fixing it, because your manager is part of the problem, or for you potentially the whole problem - telling them that is not going to make them suddenly recognize it and fix things, it will probably only cause problems for you and get you labeled as uncooperative.

My additional personal reaction is that quibbling over single digit percentage compensation versus a promotion might be a little short sighted - perhaps losing sight of what’s important. The bigger question you need to be asking is what you really want in the future, and where you want to be. If you don’t want a promotion because it seems like a pay cut, then think about whether your time at that company has already reached it’s ceiling, and whether you should move on. If you don’t want extra responsibility, maybe you aren’t really interested in promotions and what they come with, which is perfectly fine, but that also might imply something about how much money you’ll ever be able to make.

A lot of managers and companies definitely will look at superficial indicators of how “invested” and “engaged” you are in your job, so it’s up to you to figure out how to display the right set of indications that you’re above-average in terms of your commitment compared to your fellow employees. Talking to your manager a lot is helpful in that regard, but not necessarily in a critical or adversarial way, more in a help them do their job kind of way.

Being told you lost rating over PTO is pretty awful, that seems like cause for some kind of action - however you probably shouldn’t trust HR by default, you should probably communicate to your manager that you feel it was rather unfair, and remind them about the extra time you put in. Is it possible your manager was surprised by your PTO, or did you plan well in advance and remind them beforehand? Did you communicate the extra hours you were putting in before and during the time you were doing it? Do other managers break the PTO policy, or is it just your manager? Are other people on your team having the same problem? There are always shitty managers, maybe that is your problem, and not something more general. Are you on the radar of your manager’s manager?

If your manager is toxic, you might be trapped, and the best move you can make is to leave, not to confront them. But if your expectations are a little higher than others and/or you’re making assumptions and getting upset before having had a complete conversation, then it’s possible you could start those conversations and put yourself on a better path.

I've had a few difficult colleagues. These discussions are, IMO, critical.

They also show how effective your manager is. Your manager should be able to take seriously your concerns about that team member. You and your manager should be able to zero in, rather quickly, on strategies for handling the difficult team member.

Discussion about termination / reassignment of your colleague should be avoided early on, but if it becomes obvious that it's an irreconcilable situation, your manager should be pretty frank about company policies about "performance improvement plans," the optics of firing someone, and strategies to isolate the other team member so they don't impact everyone else.

"Is it possible your manager was surprised by your PTO, or did you plan well in advance and remind them beforehand? Did you communicate the extra hours you were putting in before and during the time you were doing it?"

Yeah, they knew. I sent emails to the team and others that I worked with to let them know, filled out the team calendar, and turn on my OOO notifications. All the expected behaviors.

Yeah, I'll never move up and make more money. I'd love to make more, but it won't ever happen. I did like working as a tech lead, but I'm not going to do it without the pay that comes with it.

I disagree about it being shortsighted to bring up the raise issue. I would be fine with a 7% raise as long as it didn't mean more hours. If we dont stand up for fair compensation practices then only the people in power will really benefit. Just look at the percent change in CEO vs employee pay. It seems a lot of that change is because employees aren't standing up for fair compensation. Like at year end this year, if you don't get at least a 5% raise/ COLA then the company is effectively paying less next year due to inflation. Many people who are not adept at finance will look at a 5% raise and be ecstatic since COLA for the past decade has be about 2-3%.

I agree that conversations will not help on these subjects. You mentioned about this being a bad manager. I have had a couple of bad managers. Some of them may not have been bad themselves, but most of the authority happens at the department head level, so they might not have had a choice. I can't really leave either since most of my experience was in obscure tech (Neoxam and FileNet).

I've always done the things that they like to see for engagement (except one department that seemed to want 10 hour days; more hours = more engaged). I mostly did things like system improvements, action communities, knowledge sharing sessions, etc because I actually liked them. But in the end it never makes a difference.

It might be good to define more carefully what “fair compensation” actually means. CEO vs employee isn’t a very good analogy, IMO. It’s broken for sure, but it doesn’t make a good comparison. Software engineers these days are making very good money and have very good working conditions compared to most other industries, even among other skilled white collar careers like doctors. What’s “fair” is a fairly vague and relative idea.

It might be good to really discuss your value too, which is half of the “deal” you’re compensated for. Even if your manager doesn’t know it, you’re not really being compensated for your hours, you’re being compensated for your knowledge and skills, in combination with your willingness to apply them toward your company’s goals. What I’m getting at is that the company may be happy to offer raises if it sees value, and it may take some communication and negotiation on your part for them to see that value, it’s unlikely to happen on it’s own. The company, and especially bad managers, have a vested interest in framing your job as easily replaceable.

Do you have more info on what that looks like? I guess I'm just lost.