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Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

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Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#61

Post by hedora »

I’d say the main challenges come from two directions:

- you’re competing with fresh undergrads, and most companies have university recruitment pipelines you can’t leverage.

- older people (by default) are expected to have more experience, and perform better than people with no work experience. If you were at your current skill level after 20 years on the job, you’d probably be a lost cause. Be sure to set the expectation that you are a junior developer when applying.

Having said that, it’s totally possible. Most software firms are looking for more diversity of background, and you likely have all sorts of relevant “soft skill”, business, and other experience other candidates can’t bring to the table.

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#62

Post by nickelcitymario »

Absolutely. I wish more people would.

This industry's over-representation of 20-30-somethings creates a real echo chamber. When any group is over-represented in an industry, that industry will struggle to hear other perspectives and experiences. So please, let's increase the supply of diverse voices.

(This is not an "SJW" thing, by the way. I can feel some of you being triggered by words like "diverse", but I'm not trying to say that any of you are any less deserving of your jobs and accomplishments. You're all wonderful and brilliant.)

In terms of hire-ability, I think you'll find much success. I don't live in SV, but in my experience, the age of a programmer has never been an issue in hiring.

With one exception: The salary expectations of someone in their early 20s is usually different from someone in their 40s. Switching careers generally means starting from the bottom and working your way up. You'll probably climb much faster than the young guns due to all sorts of relevant experiences you've had, but there's no getting around the fact that you're starting over.

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#63

Post by kayimbo »

my tip would be absolutely don't start with all the normal shit everyone does. Learn some real niche or ultra modern shit first. Start with things that are considered very hard. CSS/react ect is absolutely worthless knowledge that is going to take just as much time to learn as something valuable that differentiates you.

there are an incredible number of specialties in programming. You don't want to be competing with 50 million other junior developers.

My second tip is unless you are a genius, the learning curve is going to suck. just gotta stick with it and grind it out till the shit is easy. Years of learning curve.

My third tip is talking about programming is an equally important skill as programming. You need to communicate with a lot of different developers often, so you can learn the lingo.

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#64

Post by trashface »

I'm 46 and basically retired now because I felt like my opportunities were drying up.

You'll probably be able to get a job, but it will be at a second or third tier company that is questionably managed and considers you to be a cost center. So you'll have no political power and everyone breathing down your neck to get things done - while also having you sit in meetings half the time.

You won't be able to work at a FAANG unless you are have such innate talent that you are basically god's gift to programming.

In addition to all the normal barriers for interviewing, like whiteboard coding, passing leetcode tests, etc, you are going to need to jump the ageism hurdles. For example, the fact that the person interviewing you is younger and is thinking "this candidate is too old".

(And for the 40+ programmers that are going to reply and tell me they are working with tons of older workers: you guys have survivorship bias).

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#65

Post by hellisothers »

hedora wrote: post #61

I’d say the main challenges come from two directions: - you’re competing with fresh undergrads, and most companies have university recruitment pipelines you can’t leverage. - older people (by default) are expected to have more experience, and perform better than people with no work experience. If you were at your current skill level after 20 years on the job, you’d probably be a lost cause. Be sure to set the expecta…

I think all the worries of competing with undergrads and “the youth” generally can be avoided by not applying at a startup or any other scrappy little company that wants to pay very little to overwork inexperienced labor. An older employee probably doesn’t want to work there anyway, I agree a lifetime of soft skills actually has a fair bit of value especially at less exciting medium to large businesses (bake, healthcare, etc)

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#67

Post by klingon78 »

inter_netuser wrote: post #60
klingon78 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many plan to be a CTO, VP, or making silly money somehow, but that doesn’t often happen. I know few old developers, but those I know aren’t making silly money- they’re either in slow very small businesses or working for some mid-sized to large company.

what kind of "slow very small businesses"? 1-man consulting shops, or something more?

In my experience, there is a class of small company that has roughly 3-7 employees, at least half of which are 45-65 years old, where the business is slow and quiet, with little sign of any growth, typically selling a niche product or technology for which there is not much competition. One or more may have big ideas but really they just are happy having a job and working with others.

There’s nothing wrong with this.

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#68

Post by johbjo »

The type of coding that can be self-taught in a few months/years is exactly the type of coding that guys ageIf you have a background in mathematics and/or statistics, consider transitioning to data science instead.

If you have no science/engineering background, it would be tough.

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#69

Post by valeri-program »

jawns wrote: post #33
valeri-program wrote: post #16

I keep reading here that somehow “energy” gives young people advantage. In my experience, having lots of energy can help or hinder. Being a good programmer requires patience, mature view of the world and the ability to think critically. Reading articles and coding all day just serves the ego. A very small portion of young people spend time learning the fundamentals and think about consequences. So, I think you have a…

I don't think it's necessarily energy so much as lack of other obligations, like having dependents you have to care for outside of normal business hours. I see this not only among 20-something unmarried workers with no children but also among single workers in their 30s, 40s, and 50s who are either childless or whose children are older and less dependent on them. There's more flexibility to be able to work a little l…

Solid point. But it depends - if you are a 20,30-year old with no obligations then there is a high chance that you do not really know how the world works. I guess I’m suggesting your typical mom’s basement rat who neither has the programming skills or the domain/business logic. But the field is quite forgiving, so you can pull it off no matter your background. Here were I live, programmers get paid 5-6 times more than the average income. Some seniors get the same money as a bank director would and of course, not the same levels of stress. A lot of people actually transition to IT and do it successfully, but we are an outsource market and there are companies that hire a lot of juniors and sell them to customers as seniors...so better environment for new-starters. I would say to the author to go ahead and try it! I truly love this field, it is amazing!

Re: Ask HN: Can you switch to a programming career despite nearing 40?

#70

Post by stevegalla »

Not many details were given, so it’s difficult to give specifics. Two things to keep in mind: first, take advantage of your domain knowledge; second, consider programming adjacent jobs.

If you’re having to learn both programming skills and the domain knowledge, you’ll have a hard time. You’ll be learning two things at once. You’ll be judged on both and it may be hard to diagnose what the issue is. Are you having trouble with the domain knowledge or with the programming? If you’re just ramping up on coding, it allows you to worry about improving coding ability.

Some companies have software adjacent roles such as business analyst, project manager, product manager, scrum related roles, or QA positions that you could look to jump to. From there you can switch to development. Some of those roles don’t pay nearly as well as programming, but the barrier to entry is lower. Often your deliverables would be some sort of document as opposed to working software.

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