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Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#61

Post by hellisothers »

ken wrote: post #49
rohan1024 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is saying that because with webapps you have - control over your software and updates - no one can pirate your software/service

How do you have more "control over your software" with a web app? With a native app, I can do virtually anything. With a web app, I can really only do what (Google ∩ Apple ∩ Microsoft)'s web browser teams decided to prioritize, and allow, and optimize. As for 'pirating', is that a serious concern these days? I've only ever heard about it being an issue at big companies selling software to other big companies, where i…

I think they mean rapid, continuous deployment. If it’s a web app you can push out changes every day to near universal adoption. With a native app you have to cajole users to update

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#62

Post by hellisothers »

Youden wrote: post #58

Yes, there's definitely still a place for them. I'd say that that when you're writing an application which is fundamentally just a pretty wrapper (e.g. it exists to take user input and pipe it over HTTP to some web service or use it to generate a command for some other binary) and your users don't care about performance, resource usage or reliability, it makes sense to use a browser. Your application is very UI-focus…

100% this, it depends on the context, and as one other person mention it depends on your goal.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#63

Post by AnonC »

It depends on what you’re developing, who the target users are and how much you need to charge to sustain yourself. It also depends on your skills and how much time you’re willing to invest in creating a desktop application (doing one that’s cross platform, that performs well and works like a native app on each platform would take a significant amount of effort).

Native desktop apps targeted at the average user are better done on macOS, since that platform has a higher percentage of users who will pay (compared to the percentage of users who’d just pirate it).

Applications targeted at professional users, corporate users and developers can get an audience that’s willing to pay on any platform.

If your application is better done as a service, and you’d like better control on managing versions, a web based SaaS might make sense.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#64

Post by chrismorgan »

ken wrote: post #56
chrismorgan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needn’t be true. You can use a service worker to make the code load when offline, and IndexedDB to store data. As a trivial example, https://jakearchibald.github.io/svgomg/ (which has no data storage requirements) works just fine offline. Offline support is a banner feature of the PWA (progressive web apps) movement.

I was excited to see how this worked, so I visited the page, clicked around to see what it did, disconnected from my network, and tried opening the page again in a new window. I got the usual browser error page: "You Are Not Connected to the Internet". So I connected to the network, loaded the page, then disconnected from my network, clicked the Demo button, and got: "Couldn't fetch demo SVG". So by trial and error,…

Sounds like the service worker didn’t register for you.

The logic that decides whether the browser accepts service workers is a little bit iffy. My vague recollection is that browsers default to something like “when you access the site for the second time, keep the service worker”. (Don’t quote me on that, and if anyone knows better, please correct me.) “Add this to your home screen” functionality will definitely make the service worker go. (That’s mostly for mobile browsers only at this time, though desktop browsers will eventually get it consistently available, as we’ve been promised for… hmm, about 8±2 years, I think.)

Privacy and blocking extensions may block service workers from being registered, too.

If the service worker is loaded, then it loads just fine with no internet connection, and the demo works too. The contribute and about links, being to GitHub, still don’t work.

I first actually discovered this completely by accident: I was offline, and thought “I need to shrink this SVG file, so I’ll open a tab to the SVGOMG URL and that error page will remind me to do it when I reconnect; huh, it loaded, must have a service worker. This is really great.” On later reflection, I realised that it being by Jake Archibald (a big mover in the service worker space) pretty much guaranteed it was going to work offline.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#65

Post by WilliamEdward »

bhauer wrote: post #29

I prefer well-designed desktop applications to web applications for most things that don't naturally involve the web: * Email clients (I use Thunderbird) * Office suites * Music and media players * Maps * Information managers (e.g., password managers) * Development tools * Personal productivity tools (e.g., to-do lists) * Games As Windows starts on-boarding their unified Electron model (I can't recall what they have…

Email doesn't naturally involve the web? What?

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#66

Post by WilliamEdward »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25
amelius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the main advantages of SaaS: recurring payments and data lock-in.

Adobe achieves that with desktop apps, if you can call it an achievement.

Achievement is a big word here. They had to shove it down people's throats with a bloated, buggy, and expensive app suite.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#67

Post by alexgmcm »

hellisothers wrote: post #61
ken wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you have more "control over your software" with a web app? With a native app, I can do virtually anything. With a web app, I can really only do what (Google ∩ Apple ∩ Microsoft)'s web browser teams decided to prioritize, and allow, and optimize. As for 'pirating', is that a serious concern these days? I've only ever heard about it being an issue at big companies selling software to other big companies, where i…

I think they mean rapid, continuous deployment. If it’s a web app you can push out changes every day to near universal adoption. With a native app you have to cajole users to update

Also on mobile you are constrained by the app store requirements as well.

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#68

Post by toomuchtodo »

SllX wrote: post #50
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #27

Every single app that I use, I try and make sure it is native. I shun electron apps at all cost. It's because people who put in effort to use the native APIs put in a lot more effort in the app in general based on my anecdotal evidence. It is also more performant and smaller in size, things that I cherish. It also pays homage to limits and striving to come up with new ways of overcoming them, which hackers would have…

Agreed. If you have a CPU from 2012 onwards, 16GB of RAM and an SSD, that’s a respectable hardware setup. It might not be the fastest piece of kit on the planet, but I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t last another 3 to 5 years without feeling slow. Electron apps invariably make such kit feel slower than it actually is. You can get good performance out of even older hardware if you treat it well and load it with g…

I type this from a 2014 MacBook Air with 8GB of ram, still going strong, no upgrades except a battery replacement. Everything is still as snappy as the first day I got it.

No electron apps!

Re: Ask HN: Is there still a place for native desktop apps?

#70

Post by [deleted] »

pretendscholar wrote: post #34
bhauer wrote: post #29

I prefer well-designed desktop applications to web applications for most things that don't naturally involve the web: * Email clients (I use Thunderbird) * Office suites * Music and media players * Maps * Information managers (e.g., password managers) * Development tools * Personal productivity tools (e.g., to-do lists) * Games As Windows starts on-boarding their unified Electron model (I can't recall what they have…

What is your maps desktop application?

[deleted]
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