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Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

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61–70 of 181 posts

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#61

You should go. But be aware that they're likely using you to look like they legitimately care about their user's privacy. So just don't let yourself be used in that way unless you want to be. The question I've always wanted to ask Facebook is how much is their data worth? No discussion of privacy at Facebook is interesting unless the discussion concerns money and their bottom line. They undoubtably have people inside…

80% of their money will come from big advertisers like Unilever and Coke who target everyone and anyone.

It's only the small advertisers who want their adverts targeted at people in their country and topic, thats it.

That sort of targeting can be done simply by what country is their ip from whats the topic of the content Im sending them.

The whole targeted advertising thing is 100% a gimmick that advertisers don't care about.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#62
Adjacent to pure "privacy" issues is a/the "data ownership" question, or maybe it should be framed as the public vs private data issue.

That is, maybe if FB own the data, advertisers buy it and states/others hack into it... the right solution is to "push the arrow through" rather than extract it. Make the data (or most of it) public. Publish it. It's not really "private" in a meaningful way. The subject (object?) does not have control of and/or knowledge of the dataset describing them. Also (this relates to my last point) data is not the sum of its part. A lot of what the data is only exists at the aggregate level, and without publication users can never have control, ownership or any rights to these crucial aspects of their data..

To put it in the form of a question: Are there ways of arriving at a better state, with less distrust and paranoia that involves opening data, rather than just better protecting it.

I'm not suggesting that it's simple or that I know exactly how it should work. But, if advertisers had the same access everyone has, I think it'd be less of an issue. If the default was "data is public," I suspect we'd find better ways of dealing with data that truly needs to stay secret.

As an aside, unconnected to privacy, data has become a new class of IP. We may legally consider it copyrighted (raw data) or patent-able (trained NNs), but as a practical matter it is a new type of IP... of rapidly growing importance. There are massive, world changing examples of what can happen when we manage to create cultures of "public IP" or sharing. The scientific revolution was (arguably) directly related to the new culture of publishing experimental results. CS was irrevocably changed by free and/or open source software, especially compilers, operating systems, libraries... The WWweb, in lots of ways. The pace of the current ML explosion is directly related to and enabled by open source, free software, scientific publishing and "open IP" generally.

Imagine how held back we would have been, if those cultures of sharing hadn't emerged. I think data sharing is probably similar in this regard to compiler code or scientific experiments. Openness creates value, potentially a lot of it.

Privacy is a meaningful reason/excuse for closed data. I think it's worth trying to solve these two together. Dunno how to phrase a question for that.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#63
Why don’t they provide an API to easily use your personal data in other places? Why don’t they use federation services to let Facebook talk to ActivityPub services? If they truly cared about privacy they would give you a way to use your data outside of the platform.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#64
post #48

Ask them if they agree the like and view count next to every post/image/vid has a psychological effects on individuals and groups. If they agree, ask them if there is anything blocking them from studying the cases where the effects are negative on individuals and groups. If it is possible to list the kind of content where likes and views are having negative consequences to society that data(counts not content) should…

The problem with this argument is who decides whats harmful and whats legitimate society vs fringe society.

We might both agree that your aunt's beliefs are harmful but the anti-vax society that your aunt is a part of will argue that us blindly following experts is harmful.

Should facebook be the ones to decide whats harmful to society? If yes don't be surprised if they consider what they are doing not harmful.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#65
What are they doing to lobby against the age verification procedures in the UK, initially applied to porn, but which the government has clear intent to extend to all social media and is one of the biggest attacks on privacy in history?

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#66
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, will definitely ask about that.

I'm not so hopeful. I explained here why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20390678

I agree. I also don't think it's useful to use the term as Zuck explicitly evaded answering to that. What is more useful would be the answer to the question how easy for them is to aggregate information about a person not using FB and whether this information is used in any way (I have no hope of hearing any meaningful answer to that, but it can be amusing to see how they evade it).

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#67
post #36
post #26

Facebook and a "privacy friendly" analytics company. This roundtable will be used just for propaganda.

Huh? From a quick skim here[0], they don't collect IP addresses, respect DNT headers, and delete user agents after 90 days. I legitly can't think of a more privacy-friendly way to do that. If you're paranoid enough to believe that no analytics is the only right solution, you probably have DNT on, and this is one of the rare cases in which it's actually respected. [0] https://docs.simpleanalytics.com/what-we-collect

It'll be propaganda for Facebook, not Simple Analytics. If anything, those fears about this roundtable tarnishing their reputation may not be so unfounded...

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#68

You should go. But be aware that they're likely using you to look like they legitimately care about their user's privacy. So just don't let yourself be used in that way unless you want to be. The question I've always wanted to ask Facebook is how much is their data worth? No discussion of privacy at Facebook is interesting unless the discussion concerns money and their bottom line. They undoubtably have people inside…

80% of their money will come from big advertisers like Unilever and Coke who target everyone and anyone. It's only the small advertisers who want their adverts targeted at people in their country and topic, thats it. That sort of targeting can be done simply by what country is their ip from whats the topic of the content Im sending them. The whole targeted advertising thing is 100% a gimmick that advertisers don't ca…

> The whole targeted advertising thing is 100% a gimmick that advertisers don't care about.

While many advertisers don't care about it, to others it's very important. For example, if you visit a product page but don't complete a purchase, showing you ads for that project on different pages [1] is much more likely to lead to a sale than showing untargeted ads.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_retargeting

(Disclosure: I work on ads at Google. Speaking only for myself.)

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#69

You should go. But be aware that they're likely using you to look like they legitimately care about their user's privacy. So just don't let yourself be used in that way unless you want to be. The question I've always wanted to ask Facebook is how much is their data worth? No discussion of privacy at Facebook is interesting unless the discussion concerns money and their bottom line. They undoubtably have people inside…

80% of their money will come from big advertisers like Unilever and Coke who target everyone and anyone. It's only the small advertisers who want their adverts targeted at people in their country and topic, thats it. That sort of targeting can be done simply by what country is their ip from whats the topic of the content Im sending them. The whole targeted advertising thing is 100% a gimmick that advertisers don't ca…

IP address is poor targeting. Small businesses will want to target a geographic region of their local city & surrounding areas.

While small businesses don't sound as awesome & big as Coke, there are a lot of small businesses.

Edit - my IP address has put me in another state that's over a 6 hour drive away before. I wouldn't find that useful when targeting local people for my store.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#70

You should go. But be aware that they're likely using you to look like they legitimately care about their user's privacy. So just don't let yourself be used in that way unless you want to be. The question I've always wanted to ask Facebook is how much is their data worth? No discussion of privacy at Facebook is interesting unless the discussion concerns money and their bottom line. They undoubtably have people inside…

80% of their money will come from big advertisers like Unilever and Coke who target everyone and anyone. It's only the small advertisers who want their adverts targeted at people in their country and topic, thats it. That sort of targeting can be done simply by what country is their ip from whats the topic of the content Im sending them. The whole targeted advertising thing is 100% a gimmick that advertisers don't ca…

Surely even huge multinationals have a need to target their denture glue adverts to people who need denture glue?
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