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Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

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Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#61
post #35

I'm a digital nomad who as in the same position. I couldn't find contract work for high-skill engineers. So, I started building a marketplace for it. Today that's Moonlight - we are still small, bootstrapped, and growing, but we have companies ranging from startups to a publicly-traded company hiring through the site. Hourly rates average a little over $100US. https://www.moonlightwork.com

Neat site, I just signed up...hopefully I can find a neat company to do some additional work with (working for a college is great from a stability perspective, but it doesn't always force you into the most interesting of projects...so the ones I come up with I have to find time for outside of the normal day to day work stuff that comes up...hopefully if I can find a good company to do some extra work for it'll help p…

Definitely! It's a great way to experiment with technologies that you are passionate about, or use open-source libraries that you have been working on!

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#62
post #36

I 55 and have worked remote many times during my career (including currently). The best way I've found is to work onsite initially and dazzle them. Then when the contract is up tell them you are willing to continue remote.

Interesting! I'd always negotiated remote work upfront, but doing it this way is clever.

The key insight is to have a better alternative if they say no. You have to be in the position to speak authoritatively about your subject matter to the extent that your client realizes your time is too valuable for tire kickers. Make the case that your best work is done on your terms. It's not that you don't want to negotiate it, there is simply no mechanism for you to provide the advertised services in suboptimal working conditions.

If you have no plan b, this tactic loses all of it's teeth.

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#63
post #44

I'm a digital nomad who as in the same position. I couldn't find contract work for high-skill engineers. So, I started building a marketplace for it. Today that's Moonlight - we are still small, bootstrapped, and growing, but we have companies ranging from startups to a publicly-traded company hiring through the site. Hourly rates average a little over $100US. https://www.moonlightwork.com

Awesome. Can you share with us how it's going with getting more clients on your platform to hire contractors? I know competing with upwork and toptal must be a challenge.

Yes! It's our #1 focus. We continually experiment with marketing and product changes to increase the number of jobs. The good news is that, when a client starts hiring, they are likely to work again with their contractors, and they are very to post additional jobs using Moonlight. We launched three months ago, and the money we pay out to contractors has about doubled every month since then, and we are on track for another record week this week.

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This x 1000 Before I worked remotely, I thought that working remotely would allow me time to exercise and eat better. I had dreams of going on a daily bicycle ride, instead of being stuck in my car. The reality is that working remotely just allows me to put in insane amounts of hours. About once or twice a week I'll start my workday at three in the morning due to insomnia, and just work 12-16 hours straight. I think…

Wait. You've made a choice to engage in unhealthy work habits. It may not seem like it, but this _is_ your choice. I've been working as a remote contractor for almost 20 years. If you want to remain sane and happy, you need to set boundaries, both with clients and yourself.

yeah I think it takes time to realize you need to actively develop these habits. I've been working remotely full time for 2 years and it wasn't until about a month ago that I realized that I wasn't exercising and doing the things I said I was going to do because I didn't prioritize them or make them a habit. I'm just as busy now with my work as I was when I was in an office, but during the day my office mates and I would take afternoon walks regardless. Also, I got a lot of steps in by walking to and from the office to where ever I parked my car (city jobs amiright...). So yeah, I've finally started a routine to go to the gym in the AM before work and/or go for runs/walks around my neighborhood at some point during the day.

tl;dr; you have to actively work to develop these habits because it's easy to just sit and work the entire day

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#65
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that people don't realize about remote work is you get into a routine of being home all the time, and it's a hard habit to break. I have been working remotely for ten years and I've developed some pretty serious agoraphobia. Running errands is extremely stressful for me. I am considering taking an office job just to get out of this rut.

Go to a coworking space.

I was thinking about Croissant myself when I actually get remote gigs, it's a sort of timeshare system that books numerous different coworking spaces from one central app. It has a subscription monthly fee model with different options of hours.

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this, too. Unfortunately, recruiters suffer from two really big problems for a contractor: 1. They take a cut, a very big cut, of your hourly or daily rate. Thus, to the client, you seem very expensive, and to you, you seem cheaper than you should be. It becomes a new effort to maneuver a proper rate. 2. Recruiters suffer from the fact that they are salespeople, and salespeople often intuitively omit information…

I'm really surprised that so many employers use the middle man to find contractors. How do you tap into that market and skip the middle man? Seems like a win-win to me. (Except for the recruiter who's left out in the cold)

It's a critical question you're asking and one I'm actively exploring. It's a huge, huge pay difference if you eliminate these middle men. I think networking plays a massive role in it. I'm not a famous speech giver at conferences nor do I have an online presence past a simple tech blog I don't have time to update. However, it seems people sometimes want to work with me again and pay me for it. I'm learning now the value of this, because there aren't enough yet of these connections. I also lost contact with many people over many years as an FTE.

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#67
post #39
post #32

I've quit my day job in 2012, found a contract with a great client on Upwork (forget how it was called at the time). Initially a 6 months project, I've worked with them for 2 years. Got a few other contracts off that site, until one day I've asked one of my main clients to move out of that platform and work with me directly. Worked with them 2 years, until I got an offer in January to become a full time technical dir…

> 1. Increase your rates. Make them non-negotiable. There's people that are ready to pay for quality. If a client asks you to lower your rate, they probably aren't a good client in the first place. What if you're mediocre, though?

If there is a list of annoying false things technology people believe about business, this notion that bill rates track technical ability would have to be near the top of it.

Your rate has almost nothing to do with how good a programmer you are. Sorry, excellent programmers who've had a hard time getting consultancies launched.

Your bill rate roughly† tracks how much value you provide to your client. "Value" is complicated and situational. For programming work, for most clients, extreme technical excellence is of marginal value. Clients that engage third party developers tend to see software as a cost center and/or are simply trying to solve a business problem. They care about how quickly that problem can be workably solved, and (please take notes:) how predictable the costs are.

You can be thoroughly mediocre at programming and an excellent business value, if your mediocre code solves business problems people will allocate budget for and if you can deliver it predictably. If you can deliver predictably and fast, you can ship bog-standard PHP code and charge integer multiples of what a much better developer might implement in Rust or Haskell.

The market tends to pay a premium for problem domain specialization, and less of a premium for elite skill.

None of this much matters for someone just getting their feet wet trying to get their first couple clients. Do whatever gets you started. But get out of the habit of convincing yourself that you have to qualify somehow to charge more money. Even the consultants who are constantly telling people to raise their rates are also not charging enough. I'm a varsity member of team "raise your rates" and I thought we were undercharging 4 years ago. Since then, FTE rates have gone through the ceiling and our rates have not scaled with them. It is very unlikely that any consultant chatting about consulting on HN is charging their real market rate.

I have one bit of bad news for you: if you want to make a career out of being a contractor or consultant, you need to get off freelancing sites ASAP. It's fine to get started there, but you're not developing your practice in any meaningful way as long as you're using them; you're just getting better at slinging code (which doesn't earn you better rates!), while radically undercharging clients. Getting off freelancing sites is rough, because freelancing sites tend to provide a comparatively stable revenue stream, and real consulting revenue is lumpy. If you've never experienced "lumpy" before: it's (a) terrifying and (b) really easy to screw up, by assuming you're flush with cash when really you've effectively just been pre-paid for the next N quarters.

Some people reasonably don't want to work under lumpy consulting conditions. Better you figure that problem out for yourself early rather than wasting your time pretending, or, worse, forgoing a fuckload of income by chaining yourself to freelance sites.

† Roughly because most serious clients allocate a budget that establishes a range of what they're willing to pay to solve a problem, and an invisible component of that budget is how much work they're willing to put in to sourcing a contractor --- the first credible contractor they talk to might win the deal, meaning there's no competition to aid price discovery. Corollary: one way to "provide value" and charge a premium is to be easy to source. Something that people who build consulting firms, the kind with lots of consultants, learn quickly: clients put a premium on firms that are always available.

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#68
post #38
post #32

I've quit my day job in 2012, found a contract with a great client on Upwork (forget how it was called at the time). Initially a 6 months project, I've worked with them for 2 years. Got a few other contracts off that site, until one day I've asked one of my main clients to move out of that platform and work with me directly. Worked with them 2 years, until I got an offer in January to become a full time technical dir…

Upwork previously was oDesk AFAIK.

Elance-oDesk, it came out of their merger.

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#69
post #36

I 55 and have worked remote many times during my career (including currently). The best way I've found is to work onsite initially and dazzle them. Then when the contract is up tell them you are willing to continue remote.

Upvoted! This is absolutely the way to do it; then, once you've built up your "remote work portfolio" things get much easier

Re: Ask HN: How to become a remote contractor?

#70
post #17

> so I can travel the world while working remotely. I thought the same thing. Perhaps it is because I work for someone else instead of for myself, but since I've been full time remote for the last 2 years, I've had 0 free time for anything. I rarely leave the house. Pretty much everything I need comes from online purchases or grocery delivery as I don't even have time to do that.

If you have more consulting work than you can/should handle, increase your rates.
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