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Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

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Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#61

I started professionally developing in '82. I'm 52 now. A major part of being an engineer is filtering out the noise generated by the marketing arms of our industry. As tech development grew, the number of available tools and platforms exploded, with an exponential growth in the marketing noise generated by all these tools trying succeed. Since web development "matured", the number of disposable tools and the hype ma…

I’d second that, for web devs too, a text editor is all you need.

After 20+ years but I try out most new tools. Just in case it turns out to be something great.

In webdev in 20 years Id say ONLY Github/Git, and the cloud Linux VPS, have met the standard of Great Adds to the toolchain.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#62

Your task is to keep your house at a steady 70F when you're there, and 55F when you're not. Can you do this task more quickly now than you could 20 years ago? Your task is to assess your bills and financial health, including outstanding balances, account balances, interest rates and dividends returned. Your task is to determine the weather forecast for this afternoon. Your task is to turn on your computer and downloa…

Your task is to write a novel like Moby Dick. I suspect there are not as many people with the concentration to do so as there used to be. I think that's what OP is getting at.

A smaller percentage perhaps.

There's almost certainly more people with the time and concentration to write a novel than there has ever previously been.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#63
Assuming this is not IT-only, I'll share my thoughts as a humanities student (and prospective researcher).

For my first year in the uni, after deciding to not pursue programming professionally, I decided to go low-tech: notebooks and agenda, internet only when necessary. I definitely read more books and got more of my todo-lists done.

Then I decided I'd use the computer more, links and images were logical extensions to notetaking, and being able to hyperlink all my notes and documents was an unforegoable improvement (thank you Org-mode and Emacs, if not for these two jewels, I'd not bother using a computer for anything else than the browser).

Nowadays most of my stuff is digital, and I use some "tools" to interact with them. I research in the browser, I'm slowly getting the habit of reading shorter papers with less than 20 or so pages on the computer, almost all my notes are on the computer (with some waiting to be digitised), I use Emacs and other tools for processing all sort of data (not in the statistical sense), version control is used everywhere, from todo lists to orgs to short stories to research notes, wherever applicable (I use Mercurial or RCS generally, depending on the task).

Comparing the two ways of working, I definitely have to put up with more distraction with the digital setup, but I also know and learn more. It's hard to tame internet to not be invasive (middle finger to content websites which disable RSS feeds for pageviews, fuck you all), given most actors are actively trying to be invasive. Recently, for example, I found a reseacher whose work I wanted to follow. She had a twitter profile and an academia.com one, both platforms that provide no RSS feeds. No other profiles. Now I either have to open myself to this sort of invasive websites that are constantly trying to learn more about me and push stuff all the time, or just not follow her. And I chose the latter. But that's fucked. The business model of the internet is "we give you some stuff, often other people's stuff, pay us with your attention, and moreover we sell you to as much advertisers as we can". That's fucked, but given the utility of internet, one has to learn to put up with it, and that's not all that easy.

I do not follow live news, even with RSS. I'm subscribed to some mailing lists from newspapers and journals, weekly or daily. Other than this, I use RSS extensively. If your page does not have an RSS feed, I'll probably not follow you. A newsletter? Only when your thing is really interesting, and you post no more often than weekly. I follow youtube channels with it, so I don't have to open YT homepage and be subject to many interesting but distracing links I might be tempted to click. I do not enable notifications from anything, including mail, even on mobile phone. I decide when I want to know about the outer world: check feeds or mail manually, when I want. I use no social media. I do use Reddit, but I don't subscribe to any sub, instead, I group them into multis, and check the relevant multi when I think I need to see sth. there (and to my surprise I spend a fraction of the time I spent there in the past, even when subscribed to a handful subs, when I have a blank page from reddit.com).

The biggest distraction with computers is internet. And one needs to learn how to use it defensively. Maybe we need a "Defensive Internet Users" wiki thing?

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#64
post #23
post #7

I started programming (mainly web development) about 20 years ago. I think the lack of current day productivity is due to there being so much more input available. 15-20 years ago you were forced to get into the mix of things and try things out because there weren't 800 blog posts and 227 youtube videos on the topic you're trying to learn. Nowadays it's too easy to research yourself to death without trying anything b…

On the other hand: remember cutting out images for rounded borders, using spacer images to align everything, using Javascript for roll over image swaps, GIF for 'transparency'? But I agree for most part. I also have +15jr old PHP sites running. It was like upload and forget. But I'm so glad we now have version control and better IDEs.

There have been version control and great IDEs for about 40 years.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I believe that most people don't know how to handle today's distractions, and it takes a toll on their productivity. When I'm teaching, I'd love to bring a hammer and smash phones students check them. They're doing it as a way to avoid thinking, as a way to always have someone entertain them. They're addicted and don't know it. > I'd argue that for the most part ActiveBoards resulted in a big productivity loss…

Eh, before powerpoint, there were printed overhead transparencies. Before transparencies, there were teachers who spent their entire lecture writing directly from notes to the blackboard. Rote teachers are rote teachers.

I LOVED transparencies. The teacher brought it to the classroom if was not already there, and plugged it in. And there you have the presentation. Sit and wait while a humanities professor is dabbling with the computer corpse installed in the classroom and the projector that projects nearly a diamond shaped image onto a random place on the wall, until they just give up after some dozen of minutes. Or they set up edmodo and send you PPTXs instead of proper notes, and you need to watch stupid animations until you can get to see that 64th page with the paragraph you need to read, hopefully not coloured stupidly or not illegible in another way due to an incompatibility with the thing on the phone that renders those files, so that you don't have to wait until you go back home to look at the thing on the computer.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#66
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was part of Slack's reason for choosing PHP for their backend. Use a fancy language like Java or Node if you want to do "modern" development. PHP is for getting shit done. https://slack.engineering/taking-php-seriously-cf7a60065329?...

That's a silly blogpost, to be honest. Any language provides what he descirbes under "State" if you run a script through some sort of CGI interface (I'm not very well informed on all the variations like FastCGI or httpd mod_ stuff), which is roughly what PHP is doing too. Many languages (among which PHP too) have some web frameworks written in them which do complicate the applications, but for good: it's easier to wr…

Not just "State." Any language with a mod_whatever or CGI interface provides all of the listed advantages, but without the horrible drawbacks.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#67

No, I wasn't. About 15 years ago I've read about older "neckbeard" developers who allegedly could solve complex problems with a few lines of concise clear code in a very Shir amount of time. At the time I thought that was a myth, but now I realize I'm becoming one. Tooling can be overwhelming, but one don't have to master every single tool they encounter. To this day I use only a few shortcuts in my editor, I don't r…

do you mean "greybeard"? unless the meaning has shifted a lot over time, you probably don't want to call yourself a "neckbeard".

But isn’t calling yourself a neckbeard instead of a greybeard kind of a neckbeard thing to do? Maybe we should just leave it alone? ;)

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#68
post #61

I started professionally developing in '82. I'm 52 now. A major part of being an engineer is filtering out the noise generated by the marketing arms of our industry. As tech development grew, the number of available tools and platforms exploded, with an exponential growth in the marketing noise generated by all these tools trying succeed. Since web development "matured", the number of disposable tools and the hype ma…

I’d second that, for web devs too, a text editor is all you need. After 20+ years but I try out most new tools. Just in case it turns out to be something great. In webdev in 20 years Id say ONLY Github/Git, and the cloud Linux VPS, have met the standard of Great Adds to the toolchain.

React w/ Babel is undoubtably over hyped and yet surely its still a fairly significant value add over vanilla JS (when applicable) for how simple it can make state management and putting together UI.

Evergreen browsers, ES6 and etc are also make development significantly smoother in my experience, and I didn't even experience much before IE9.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#69
post #59
post #7

I started programming (mainly web development) about 20 years ago. I think the lack of current day productivity is due to there being so much more input available. 15-20 years ago you were forced to get into the mix of things and try things out because there weren't 800 blog posts and 227 youtube videos on the topic you're trying to learn. Nowadays it's too easy to research yourself to death without trying anything b…

On the consumer front, you can be paperless now, and travel across the county carrying nothing but your phone. That feels like progress as far as efficiency. Better tools and resources like Stack overflow etc.. have made us more productive. But this has been partially offset by endless feature adding and abstraction upon abstration in software construction. Its very difficult/impossible for people to stop development…

The feature creep at every level of abstraction is a significantly bigger problem than just the existence of each layer of abstraction imo

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for package managers. Hard to imagine programming without them, and they're much better now than 10 years ago.

And ragging on them seems to be a favourite past-time of HN. I'm a huge fan of literally any package manager.

People only complain about things they actively use.
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