I don't think cheap cars are supposed to look good.
Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
61–70 of 222 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#62The Toyota GT86, Mazda MX5, and Nissan 370Z are examples of that. However, looking at how many models were discontinued (Honda S2000, Toyota Supra, Toyota Celica, Mazda RX8), maybe the market opportunity is not as big.
Looks like the Toyota Supra may be coming back:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/supra-man-toyota-trademarks-ico...
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#63One point not yet mentioned is that the Ferrari shape is assisted by the engine placement and drive configuration. A front-engine and front-drive Hyundai has too much packaged under the hood to shape similar to a Ferrari.
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#64Really good question! Costlier cars need to stand out from the ordinary. And to stand out designers come up with fancy curves, shapes etc. From a manufacturing point of view these 'non standard' items result in more cost which the mid-range cars cant afford. For example there is more wastage in cutting a curvy door from the sheet metal as compared to a standard rectangle shaped one. It is interesting to note that as…
> It is interesting to note that as time goes by, what was fancy once eventually becomes 'standard' and the features get into the mid-range priced cars as well. Auto-shift is probably a good example. Automatic rear trunk opener is another and so on.
Is that because the high-end carmakers invest R&D in reducing costs of making these fancy door panels, which trickles down into mid/low-end cars? (I've heard similar things said for other more software-related car features like traction control or abs, but I'm interested if this is also the case for manufacturing)
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#65The Toyota GT86, Mazda MX5, and Nissan 370Z are examples of that. However, looking at how many models were discontinued (Honda S2000, Toyota Supra, Toyota Celica, Mazda RX8), maybe the market opportunity is not as big.
The Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky also come to mind as vehicles that deviated from the norm of "middle class" car styling.
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#66I can offer an opinion not yet seen in this thread. It comes down to tolerances. My father works for GM as a tool and die maker. He says that GM is obsessed with tolerances in their panels. This means that the gap between the hood and front quarter panel is the same near the windshield as it is near the headlights. Same goes for all other areas of the car. It's hard to get right. If you start to get more complex desi…
Is this still true nowadays with almost entirely automated manufacturing? If you look at modern car models, even the cheapest ones have way more "shapes at odd angles" than sports cars.
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#67Middle class cars at aimed at different needs than highend cars. A highend car like a Ferrari may aim at image and performance solely and not consider how that car would handle/drive in adverse conditions like snow or concerns for MPG. Most middle class cars are highly optimized shape wise for MPG as well as handling all types of road and weather which is why tires on performance cars look so different than middle cl…
This is a good answer. It boils down to what you're paying for. My dad was a suspension and steering engineer at General Motors years ago, and he impressed upon me the number of evolutions these designs go through. The current shape of a standard "middle class car" is highly optimized to give the best trade-off between aerodynamics, fuel efficiency, interior capacity, structural strength, etc. That's what a typical m…
> A Ferrari is entirely optimized to look hot and go fast, and makes a huge number of concessions to those goals. Just try using one as a daily driver and grocery hauler and you'll see why few people do that.
But then there are sports cars that are meant as daily drivers, like the BMW M5. The former CTO of Intel said he owns one and uses it as such.
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#68I can offer an opinion not yet seen in this thread. It comes down to tolerances. My father works for GM as a tool and die maker. He says that GM is obsessed with tolerances in their panels. This means that the gap between the hood and front quarter panel is the same near the windshield as it is near the headlights. Same goes for all other areas of the car. It's hard to get right. If you start to get more complex desi…
Is this still true nowadays with almost entirely automated manufacturing? If you look at modern car models, even the cheapest ones have way more "shapes at odd angles" than sports cars.
Nowhere near as much of automotive manufacturing is as automated as people think. Fitting panels etc is often a robot assisted job but not 100% machine. During production trials for new cars ALOT of time is spent trying to get the panels to fit together correctly, even getting the doors to seal correctly and be water proof isn't a given to begin with.
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#69I can offer an opinion not yet seen in this thread. It comes down to tolerances. My father works for GM as a tool and die maker. He says that GM is obsessed with tolerances in their panels. This means that the gap between the hood and front quarter panel is the same near the windshield as it is near the headlights. Same goes for all other areas of the car. It's hard to get right. If you start to get more complex desi…
This, this, this. In simpler terms: You can't build a "Ferarri shaped car" at the same price as an Chevy Impala because the shape is a part of the cost.
I'm not sure I really agree. It's been done.
Mid-engined layouts are just a pain to do maintenance on, generally offer reduced cargo space and interior room.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/19...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Fe...
Re: Ask HN: Why aren't there middle class cars shaped like Ferraris?
#70The Toyota GT86, Mazda MX5, and Nissan 370Z are examples of that. However, looking at how many models were discontinued (Honda S2000, Toyota Supra, Toyota Celica, Mazda RX8), maybe the market opportunity is not as big.
Additional current cars in this category include the Hyundai Genisis Coupe, Nissan 370Z, Porsche Cayman/Boxster, Alfa Romeo 4C, Chevrolet Corvette and BMW Z4. (Criteria: under $60K base price, looks like either a classic sports car or an exotic in my completely subjective opinion, actually likely to appeal to enthusiast drivers, also in my completely subjective opinion) More previous cars in this category include the…
X1/9 might look a lot like a Ferrari because Pininfarina did the body design. Too bad the rest of the car was typical '70s Fiat (hope you weren't relying on it to get you to work). Which I guess makes it even more Ferrari-like.