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Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#61

Post by kgwgk »

davemel37 wrote: post #48
kgwgk wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means related searches as in http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/g... If I understand his comment, if you select the term "sweatshirt" your add is also displayed when people search "American Eagle," and that may be yourself and you're wasting money.

He was referring to running broad match keywords by accident...My point was that its reckless to advertise without understanding match types... Google gives you nearly complete control over which terms they show you on using keyword match types and negative keywords...No one should be advertising with Google without understanding this. https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497836?hl=en

> There is no default other than showing you very closely related variant matching (i.e. plural to singular)...

It was not clear in your previous comment that "very closely related variant matching" included as well not so closely related variants like synonyms and related searches, given that you said it meant "plural to singular."

> Broad match is the default match type that all your keywords are assigned if you don't specify another match type (exact match, phrase match, or negative match). The Google AdWords system automatically runs your ads on relevant variations of your keywords, including synonyms, singular and plural forms, possible misspellings, stemmings (such as floor and flooring), related searches, and other relevant variations. To help deliver relevant matches, this match type may also take the customer's recent search activities into account.(https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497828)

Edit: The critique above may not be fair because your point seems to be that "broad match" is not the default setting (so you really think that the default shows only very closely related variants and not synonyms or related searches). However, if this is what you really meant then you seem to be wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#62

Post by [deleted] »

davemel37 wrote: post #48
kgwgk wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means related searches as in http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/g... If I understand his comment, if you select the term "sweatshirt" your add is also displayed when people search "American Eagle," and that may be yourself and you're wasting money.

He was referring to running broad match keywords by accident...My point was that its reckless to advertise without understanding match types... Google gives you nearly complete control over which terms they show you on using keyword match types and negative keywords...No one should be advertising with Google without understanding this. https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497836?hl=en

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#63

Post by nsomaru »

vram22 wrote: post #59
davemel37 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SERIOUSLY???? I have to beg my clients to stop googling themselves!!! In all seriousness, clients obsess about their ads and how it appears way more than the agencies do...They often don't realize that it can hurt their CTR, their quality scores, and pollute the data used to measure results... Google built an ad preview tool for this very reason.

How does it hurt and pollute? New to this.

If you are interacting with your own ads, the data you get at the end (especially if you are low traffic/a small player) will not be representative of reality, as your actions would have hurt/polluted the result.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#64

Post by mahranch »

dasmoth wrote: post #58
f_allwein wrote: post #23

Side question: would you click on the ad or on the organic search result? Why?

Organic, always. No desire to encourage advertising. (Yes, I'd be willing to pay a modest subscription if Google got out of the advertising business. No, I doubt this pledge will ever be put to the test...)

> I'd be willing to pay a modest subscription if Google got out of the advertising business

That would be like asking Ford to get out of the automotive business. Something like 94% of Google's revenue comes from their advertising division.

More importantly, I wish people would stop pitching the subscription model when it comes to alternatives to advertising. Study after study, after real world example, after real world example has shown that subscription models just don't work. Period. Sure, you may have one or 2 rare exceptions where a site didn't crash and burn but the overwhelming majority of sites that have tried it have fallen hard. And the ones that saw success only saw very tepid success.

It's a model that just doesn't work.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#65

Post by [deleted] »

kgwgk wrote: post #61
davemel37 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was referring to running broad match keywords by accident...My point was that its reckless to advertise without understanding match types... Google gives you nearly complete control over which terms they show you on using keyword match types and negative keywords...No one should be advertising with Google without understanding this. https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497836?hl=en

> There is no default other than showing you very closely related variant matching (i.e. plural to singular)... It was not clear in your previous comment that "very closely related variant matching" included as well not so closely related variants like synonyms and related searches, given that you said it meant "plural to singular." > Broad match is the default match type that all your keywords are assigned if you do…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#66

Post by jackgolding »

calbear81 wrote: post #3

This study ( http://searchengineland.com/google-research-even-if-you-rank... ) is a bit old and possibly biased (since sponsored by Google) but when I worked in SEM the experience we had was the same which was the top organic position + the top paid position netted overall more traffic to our site than with just the organic position alone. The other considerations are: 1) Brand SEM terms are cheap - if you own the br…

I work in an industry where branded terms are EXTREMELY expensive and I've spent the last year and a half looking for ways to build better heuristics on how marketing actually works. I am extremely skeptical of media agencies and all parties relating to marketing spend, even those who want to measure it in their own "scientific" manner.

From attending conferences it doesn't seem like anyone is really on the ball with attribution reporting. The best thing you can do for marketing analytics is implement rigorous and scientific experiments, which require massive buy in. If anyone wants to discuss this or work towards a solution send me an email (in profile.)

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#67

Post by paulcole »

madaxe_again wrote: post #46
davemel37 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reflects the core argument to do this...but the truth is more subtle. Agencies and in house SEM teams are inherently biased to want to spend on brand terms because a) they can attribute more sales to their channel and b) Justify more spend which equals more revenue for most agencies... I am not discounting the validity of the argument to bid on brand terms and I bid on brand terms for most of my clients...but I…

It's (a) all the way down. The expression is robbing Peter to pay Paul - we've even tested it - while running ads on branded keywords does increase clicks, it increases the CPA from zero to potentially pricey. The net benefit is so-so, and if the client doesn't understand that they're cannibalising their organic traffic you have a problem - I.e. 99% of the time. The only reason I've ever witnessed is SEO/M ego rubbin…

>we studied drama and literature.

The horror.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#68

Post by paulcole »

dasmoth wrote: post #58
f_allwein wrote: post #23

Side question: would you click on the ad or on the organic search result? Why?

Organic, always. No desire to encourage advertising. (Yes, I'd be willing to pay a modest subscription if Google got out of the advertising business. No, I doubt this pledge will ever be put to the test...)

Here you go:

https://www.google.com/contributor/welcome/

Please let us know the amount you contributed.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#69

Post by dasmoth »

paulcole wrote: post #68
dasmoth wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic, always. No desire to encourage advertising. (Yes, I'd be willing to pay a modest subscription if Google got out of the advertising business. No, I doubt this pledge will ever be put to the test...)

Here you go: https://www.google.com/contributor/welcome/ Please let us know the amount you contributed.

"Not yet available in your country". (Although there's a "waitlist" button now which I don't remember from when this first appeared, so thanks for getting me to take another look).

Note, also, that "fewer adverts" isn't the same as "Google out of the advertising business"! Although, in practice, I probably would pay for the former as well if it were an option.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

#70

Post by jackgolding »

davemel37 wrote: post #26
f_allwein wrote: post #23

Side question: would you click on the ad or on the organic search result? Why?

Believe it or not, even in 2016, even with the ad label, there are still plenty of people who have no idea that there is a difference between the paid and organic listings... They just go to Google and click on a link with a snippet that speaks to them. Personally, as a search marketer, I always assume that someone willing to pay money to reach me probably has a more relevant offering and experience for me, so I am s…

Also for SAAS products on branded terms you are more likely to get a better new customer experience on a tailored landed page than the homepage (for some businesses anyway.)

I agree with informational search, I think that clicking on an ad will put me lower in their sales funnel which means more annoying popups and remarketing.

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