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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, that's not the employee's decision to make.

What do you mean?

it means that once it's been reported, it is extremely unwise to just "let it go". Now that the employer known that sexual harrasment took place, if they do nothing about it then they will be HUGELY liable if something worse happens later on (which seems likely, seeing as this guy did this as a relatively new hire).

Additionally, you generally don't want ass-hats that do this kind of shit working for your company, when the other party has made if obvious the advances are unwanted (we can only go off what OP has said though) working for your company. Especially if its small.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My reaction would be to just fire both. What did the existing employee do to deserve such treatment?

Maybe the OP hasn't shared all information but if asking someone out and/or complimenting someone's appearance (albeit crudely) is now the equivalent of sexual harassment then be prepared for a rapid decline in population since no one will want to be the first one to make a move.

Continuing sexual advances in a work context after being explicitly rebuffed is textbook harassment. This is, perhaps, nearly the most minor incident possible of that basic pattern, but it also pretty clearly fits it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#63
post #3

Lawyer lawyer lawyer LAWYER lawyer LAWYER . I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause." I would bet substantial money that when you lawyer lawyer lawyer they will advise you to do that and document the heck out of it. The calculus is really, really simple: if you don't, then you will with probability approaching one get this incident or a similar incident cited during a threa…

> I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause."

I think the normal business advice would be to 'suspend pending investigation', and then wait for a neutral third party to recommend firing.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#64
Based on the training I've received - document the incident, talk to the problem employee and remind him that this is not appropriate business behavior, and warn him that a repeat performance will not be tolerated, nor will any attempts at retribution aimed at the company at large, or the female employee. Provide training to the company at large, so they know what is, and what is not acceptable in a business. Get training yourself so you know the law and how to handle this in the future.

I disagree with the chorus of "Fire him now!" in the other comments; startups hire a lot of folks straight out of college, so there's a significant chance that the employee in question has never been informed of what is, and is not, appropriate when they want to pursue a romance with someone from the office. What may be acceptable in a college classroom is very different from what is acceptable in an office.

Mistakes happen, words and body language which were not included in the chat log may have been misconstrued... you have one side of the story right now. Get both sides, and give the opportunity for the man to learn.

Involving a lawyer to ensure that you're on the right side of the law is, of course, a damned good idea. Especially if you end up deciding that you want to go down the road of firing.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#65
post #5

Have you a sexual harassment policy? Did they agree to it when they took the job? Fire that person immediately, it's a clear breach. You need to show your employees that you will support them when something like this happens. This may not be the first time this has happened, might only be the first time that you have heard about it. You need to be proactive in creating a safe work environment and as the founder that…

> Have you a sexual harassment policy? Did they agree to it when they took the job?

Does this matter? Most employers don't have a murder policy. In both cases, laws supersede policy.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#66
post #37
post #24

I really don't understand the environment around sex and relationships in the work place. It's messed up. Someone should be able to express interest and the other person should be able to refuse it. Simple as that. But instead there is a whole drawn out ritual around these things. It's not really grown up thing that adults do, instead any male is looked at as an aggressive offender looking to rape someone, unless the…

I find all these laws around sexual harassment strange and confusing too. Where I live, it's not sexual harassment unless you grabbed somebody's ass or demand sex/sexual favors using your authority. Saves a lot of nerves for everybody. I don't see anything bad one adult person asking other adult person out and showing sexual interest in non-violent, non-demanding way and accepting "no" for an answer (as far as story…

Would you find it appropriate if a coworker at work came up to you and said they would like to fuck you (which is quite literally what MILF means)

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#67
post #30

Any ideas why your employee brought it up to you (management) but does not want you (management) to do anything about it?

"I don't want to be seen as a problem, and I don't want this to be a case of management portraying it as 'that guy we love got fired because X can't take a joke'".

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#68
post #8

I'm not familiar with US customs, so little confused here: is asking your co-worker out is considered a sexual harassment? Or is it the "milf" part?

Asking somebody out isn't sexual harassment. Insisting and making crude work-inappropriate remarks is harassment, and that's not just in the US: [76/207/EEC] Article 2 § 2

> harassment: where an unwanted conduct related to the sex of a person occurs with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, and of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment

> sexual harassment: where any form of unwanted verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature occurs, with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, in particular when creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment

[76/207/EEC] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE...

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#69
First of all, talk to a lawyer.

One thing that is really overlooked about harassment is that it's not about a single event. Realize a few things:

* She's saying that it's ok because in the real world most companies will protect the man over the woman. Women who want to get ahead learn to never put her neck out too far. All too often, clearly bad behavior will result in "training" for the guy. (After all, she was a hottie asking for it, am I right?) Do you really want accept an apology for her that it's not a big deal that she was harassed at work?

* Workplace harassment happens because most guys know they _can_ get away with it. More importantly: if this was the line cause a stir, the he'll just be more subtle next time. It's boundary testing that is no different from a four-year-old. It _will_ get around, because this guy will associate with others who don't mind his behavior. Do you really want to be known for that type of environment?

* Once the workplace accepts an event, it becomes that much harder to rationalize dealing with equal or less events. You'll have people actually arguing that Henry wasn't punished when asked Sally out, why are you punishing me? And, he could have valid precedent. Do you really want to be dealing with the fine lines between behaviors?

Fundamentally, sexual harassment erodes trust. If you have a workplace that has clear line between humor and personal relations, that creates teams who understand and care about each other: you can joke about sexual innuendo, personal problems, etc. When someone is unhappy with something, he or she feels safe to speak up. Encourage people being humble and considerate. If harassment is allowed, at best it just causes drama. At worst, it causes power problems that kill trust, brings in more people who causes problems, and the real possibility that someone could own your start up by lawsuit.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#70

Is it sexual harassment B/C he asked her out or B/C he used the term "MILF" or B/C she wasn't interested? Did the whatsapp portion of the conversation occur at work or outside of work? Does your company have a policy that forbids coworkers to date? My former boss dated an employee who worked in a different department. People at work knew and it was not considered a problem. No one got fired or sued. I guess I'm tryin…

The only part that actually qualifies as sexual harassment is that he called her a milf. Although it's entirely up to the discretion of the victim what's harassment and what isn't (unless the founder is there to witness it himself).
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