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Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

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Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills that other devs don't feel this way. How bad are the coders that they think these AI's are giving them super powers. The PR's with AI code are so obvious and when you ask the devs why, they don't even know. They just say, well the AI picked this, as if that means something in and of itself.

>I feel like I am taking crazy pills that other devs don't feel this way. Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe you are. For example, this weekend I was working on something where I needed to decode a Rails v3 session cookie in Python. I know, roughly, nothing about Rails. In less than 5 minutes ChatGPT gave me some code that took me around 10 minutes to get working. Without ChatGPT I could have easily spent a cou…

> I don't understand how people don't see that AI can give them "superpowers" by leveraging a developers least productive time into providing their highest value.

I'm unwilling to write code^1 that's not correct, or at least as correct as I'm able to make it. The single most frustrating thing in my daily life is dealing with the PoC other devs cast into the world that has more bugs than features, because they can't tell it's awful. I've seen code I've written at my least productive, and it's awful and I'm often ashamed of it. It's the same quality as AI code. If AI code allows me to generate more code that I'm ashamed of, when I'm otherwise too tired myself to write code, how is that actually a good thing?

I get standards for exclusively personal toy projects, and stuff you want others to be able to use are different. But it doesn't add value to the world if you ship code someone else needs to fix.

^1 I guess I should say commit/ship instead, I write plenty of trash before fixing it.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like take home tests are meaningless and I always have. Even more so now with LLMs, though 9/10 times you can tell if it's an LLM-people don't normally put trivial comments in the code such as > // This line prevents X from happening I've seen a number of those. The issue here is that you've already wasted a lot of time with a candidate. So being firmly against take home tests or even leetcode, I think the onl…

> I feel like take home tests are meaningless and I always have. Even more so now with LLMs This has been discussed many times already here. You need to set an "LLM trap" (like an SSH honey trap) by asking the candidate to explain the code they wrote. Also, you can wait until the code review to ask them how they would unit test the code. Most cheaters will fall apart in the first 60 seconds. It is such an obvious tel…

What if I use an LLM but I understand the code?

The drawback is that elements in a hashmap can’t be sorted and accessing a specific element by key is slower then accessing something in an array by index.

Linear search is easier to implement.

These are all trivial questions you ask to determine if a person can develop code. The hard questions are whether the person is the cream of the crop. The amount of supply of developers is so high most people don’t ask trivial questions like that.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Plenty of large organizations hire this way. My first employer is bigger than any FAANG company by head count, and they hired this way. Why is big tech different?

When you're operating a small furniture company, your master craftsmen can hand-fit every part. Match up the hole that's slightly too big with the dowel that's slightly too big, which they put to one side the other day. When you're operating a huge furniture company, you want every dowel and every hole the same size. Then any fool can assemble it, and you don't have to waste time and space on a collection of slightly…

Also human judgement is loaded with bias. Height influences outcome and this is a statistically proven phenomena. Ask any interviewer in this thread and they will claim height and good looks aren’t a factor but the statistics prove them wrong.

The literal only way to get rid of that is quantitative tests.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#584
post #416

The last time I've used a leet code style interview was in 2012, and it resulted in a bad hire (who just happened to have trained on the questions we used). I've hired something like 150 developers so far, and what I ended up with after a few years of trial and error: 1. Use recruiters and network: Wading through the sheer volume of applications was even nasty before COVID, I don't even want to imagine what it's like…

When I was interviewing candidates at IBM, I came up with a process I was really happy with. It started with a coding challenge involving several public APIs, in fact the same coding challenge that was given to me when I interviewed there. What I added: 1. Instead of asking "do you have any questions for me?" at the very end, we started with that general discussion. 2. A few days ahead, I emailed the candidate the pr…

very thoughtful idea!

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#585

I do not understand the obsession with proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that an interviewer can code. Not being able to code is by far the easiest failure mode to deal with and I can deal with it more quickly by looking at resumes and firing people for outright lying about their abilities very quickly. What is much harder to detect is the person who gives up at the first sign of trouble. Or someone who likes to ove…

> firing people for outright lying about their abilities very quickly

I assume your from the US? The issue with firing people quickly after hiring them is:

* You need to pay whatever headhunter or other personnel that is involved. Some offer a cashback or reduced rate to find a new person, but your still out of the pocket. Do it a few too many times and the headhunter dump you.

* You just wasted a ton of time of other employees, setting up this persons accounts, social benefits, contract negotiation, training time, and more. Again, this is not free.

* Now you are back to looking for other people. You know those people that you rejected, well, the change is reduced that they will come back to your company, maybe they got hired somewhere else, maybe your rejection left a bad impression as you hired that lying person over a actually well qualified person that just did not ace the interview (happens to so many people, often because of nerves).

The trick is, to have a that person (and others in the interview process) work a few days in your company, but this is not covered by a official work contract but a interim contract (of course, you pay those people, some companies are real bastard and do not pay).

That can weed out the people that are good at lying about their skills. But to be honest, if you can not spot them during the interview stage, ...

We had people coming in for Senior positions, and their CVs looked good, they knew how to talk the talk. But when asked for some incredible basic SQL question, they fumbled so much, because they used ORMs their entire life. But loved to place SQL skills on their CV. Seen multiple of those... And so often they then switch to going after the interviewer, thinking that by attacking the interviewer before the boss, that will help them. Yea, "Senior material"...

With AI its going to be the same. People get comfortable using AI, but when you ask code questions without that AI to back them up, that skill gap will exposé themselves very fast during the actual interviews.

I love using AI because it can remove so much boilerplate / repeat / great for finding doc info but you need to know your language. If you grew up with only AI, and do not grow beyond AI to solve every issue, your nothing more but a copy/past dev (AI is just a extension of that dev type).

> Or someone who likes to over abstract everything.

No no, the most annoying ones are those that come in and then want to implement everything into a style they are familiar with! Code rewrites to fit them, framework changes because they are familiar with them... Nothing more fun as hiring somebody to write Angular for 13k/month (talking almost 10 years ago), and then this person pushing Vue, to even rewriting part of the codebase into Vue. Like, we hired you with a insane salary because we are desperate for a Angular developer, if we wanted to rewrite everything to Vue, we will have hired somebody cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, that is interesting; reading is harder? You have to read a lot of code anyway right? From team members, examples, 3rd party code/libraries? Through the decades of programming at least I became very proficient and rapidly spotting 'fishy' code and generally understanding code written by others. AI coding is nice because it is, for me, the opposite of what you have; reading the code it generates is much faster tha…

> Hmm, that is interesting; reading is harder? Much, much harder. Sure, you can skim large volumes of code very quickly. But the type of close reading that is required to spot logic bugs in the small is quite taxing - which is the reason that we generally don't expect code review processes to catch trivial errors, and instead invest in testing.

You should use testing and a debugger for this. Don’t just read code, run it and step through it and observe code as it mutates state.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#587
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends ofc on the complexity of the area, but... reading someones code to me feels a bit like being given a 2D picture of a machine, then having to piece together a 3D model in my head from a single 2D photo from one projection of the machine. Then figuring out if the machine will work. When I write code, the hard part is already done -- the mental model behind the program is already in my head and and I simply dump…

Running code in your head is another issue that AI won't solve (yet); we had different people/scientists working on this; the most famous person there being Brett Victor, but also Jonathan Edwards [0] and Chris Granger (lighttable). I find the example in [0] the best; you are sitting there with your very logically weak brain trying to think wtf will this code do while there is a very powerful computer next to you tha…

Don’t run code in your head. Run it in reality and step through it with a debugger.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the years, I've walked from several "live coding" interviews. Arguably though, if you're looking for "social coders" maybe the interview is working as intended? But for me, it's just not how my brain works. If someone is watching me, I'll be so self-conscious the entire time you'll get a stream of absolute nonsense that makes me look like I learned programming from YouTube last night. So it's not worth the time.…

Ironically this is exactly how I am too. Even at work, if I'm talking through a problem on a presentation or with my boss, I'm much more scatterbrained, and I'll try to dodge those kinds of calls with "Just give me 30 minutes and I'll figure it out." which always goes better for me. That said, now we're just talking about take home challenges for interviews and you always hear complaints about those too. And shorter,…

> The best barometer I found so far was to set up a small collection of files making up a tiny app and then have candidates debug it with me.

This is a great one! I wish more companies tried that.

Re: Ask HN: What is interviewing like now with everyone using AI?

#589
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This completely.. You ask a rote question and you'll get a rote answer while the interviewee is busy looking at a fixed point on the screen. You then ask a pointed question about something they know or care about, and suddenly their face lights up, they're animated, and they are looking around. It's a huge tell.

You know, this makes me wonder if a viable remote interview technique, at least until real-time deepfaking gets better, would be to have people close their eyes while talking to them. For somebody who knows their stuff it'll have zero impact; for someone relying entirely on GPT, it will completely derail them.

> For somebody who knows their stuff it'll have zero impact

I just tried and it's: hard. It feels like being ask to keep one's breath like writing something.

I need to focus too much on keeping my eyes closed, I don't have enough bandwith left to thing about anything relevant.

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