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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#581

Post by ht85 »

analogic wrote: post #473
ht85 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I used to smoke, one of my worries about quitting was that I wouldn't be able to do those intense, uninterrupted, full focus 10-12 hours coding sessions. Every couple hours, those 5 delicious minutes, the fresh air, the nicotine rush, then right back at it. I quit smoking a few years ago when my wife got pregnant and have smoked only twice since. I can actually grind more nowadays, and I'm less tired when it end…

ya its kinda crazy. the realization that nicotine doesnt actually calm you, just stops the lack of nicotine from stressing you out.

Yeah, makes you wonder how much the psychological part affects you physically, and vice versa.

I often ask myself if the positive things about smoking were just delusions to justify feeding the nicotine addiction, or if the physical consumption was a product of my mind being convinced it was a good thing somehow.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#582

Post by swsieber »

grzm wrote: post #547
swsieber wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If caffeine makes you tired, you probably have ADHD

Caffeine is known to make people sleepy as well. See the comments in this thread regarding "espresso naps". I can attest to their efficacy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16470592

Yeah, I should have phrased that differently:

ADHD people don't benefit from the "energizing" properties of caffeine.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#583

Post by Eilene »

dekhn wrote: post #579

I'm an ex-scientist and software engineer at a major tech company. I consume cannabis and have for several decades, on a regular basis. I find it helps tremendously when dealing with long, tedious work (common in software engineering) as well as being helpful with creativity. There are positives and negatives; cannabis affects the memory, ability to concentrate and think, and mood. One time, my health provider pushed…

Are you aware of others in your company or at other companies that also use cannabis as much as you? Or are you aware of people using narcotics/amphetamines?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#584

Post by pinchharmonic »

unsayable wrote: post #438

I have strong opinions about this, because like most developers, I've tried to see how I can use drugs to augment my life. As a programmer at a startup, everyone seems to accept marijuana, alcohol, and caffeine as acceptable, though I think it's considered unacceptable to be high at work (but probably nobody would care). Opiates are considered taboo, and rightfully so. Adderall is prevalent and easily available. For…

Great overview. Could you go more in depth with your experiences with the first group and second group?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#585

Post by Bartweiss »

ojno wrote: post #203
Bartweiss wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a no such thing as a free lunch theory, but for drugs There's some reason to believe this is literally true - and true in the same sense as the economic rule! In this context, it's been nicknamed the Algernon argument. Gwern (of course) has the canonical writeup.[1] The short version is: "if some chemical change could make us smarter, why wouldn't it already been in place?" Or, framed differently, "why would the br…

This is a fallacy. There are many things we can accomplish through medicine, or technology more generally, that evolution never could. There are reasons other than it being a net disadvantage that evolution may not have produced something; for example, a particular chemical may not have an easy and cost-effective way to be created in the body (particularly when food was much harder to come by), but be easy enough for…

The Algernon argument is concerned with our inability to make simple, tradeoff free improvements to performance. It says that if you find an improvement, you should be able to explain why it isn't a free lunch. None of those examples make it a fallacy - there's a reason I ended with "The other dodges are less relevant here, but a fascinating read if you check the article."

Gwern outlines three general ways to work around the Algernon rule:

1. We can live under different conditions than evolution prepared us for

2. We can optimize for different goals than evolution rewarded

3. We can make major/multifactor changes unavailable to an local-maximization algorithm.

Condition two is easiest: caffeine is a sensible response to electric lighting, while staying awake long after dark was largely unhelpful in our evolutionary past.

Condition one is sometimes rewarding: piracetam shows efficacy with choline supplements, because we can massively overload a relatively scarce chemical. Other kludges may exist, like boosting immune response by simulating a summer day/night cycle to signal "safe conditions, energy is cheap now".

Condition three is incredibly hard wrt to the brain. It's obvious for the body - eye surgery can improve on 20/20 vision - but I don't know of any drastic better-than-well interventions for the mind.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#586

Post by Eilene »

cgiles wrote: post #469
Eilene wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of what I'm trying to determine is if that pressure to succeed makes people believe they need something to be competitive. My daughter, for example, sometimes feels like she's at a disadvantage at college because so many of her peers are taking adderall (w/o a prescription) for tests and studying. Is it the same after college, professionally?

IME, in academic biology, the answer is generally no. Personally, I do use, but it isn't a result of competition, but rather a desire to achieve the most I can for a goal I care about. I don't feel pressured in any way to make this decision; if anything, the pressure is slightly in the other direction. The big trouble with it is that a drug -- any drug -- will alter your perception of the world such that it is diffic…

I don't want to do a hatchet job on white collar drug use, no. I want to learn what's actually being used, the extent of the use and then draw some meaning from that, meaning that doesn't intend to say whether the use is bad or good but just why it exists and what that might mean about work culture, society, etc. If you'd be open to talking more about this separately, pls email me at zimmermaneilene@gmail.com. Thanks.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#587

Post by Eilene »

jfv wrote: post #200

Drug abuse is not a big issue in SV in general. There are a few general themes: 1) Some startups have a heavy-drinking bro-y environment. 2) Weed is common outside of work (in all of SF) 3) As part of the burning man culture a lot of people will occasionally let loose all weekend with molly, LSD, shrooms, and anything else you’d expect at BM 4) Some people will use adderall/modanfil to stay productive during work. 5)…

Would you be comfortable giving some general details about what you do, in what kind of company you work and how long you've been in the industry? (It helps e to qualify your opinion in some way... )

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#589

Post by Bartweiss »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #201
Bartweiss wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a no such thing as a free lunch theory, but for drugs There's some reason to believe this is literally true - and true in the same sense as the economic rule! In this context, it's been nicknamed the Algernon argument. Gwern (of course) has the canonical writeup.[1] The short version is: "if some chemical change could make us smarter, why wouldn't it already been in place?" Or, framed differently, "why would the br…

One of the obvious ones is consuming excessive amounts of nutrients scarce in the ancestral environment. Like, you evolved in a place where you can't just buy Choline supplements, so "you're smarter but run out of Choline" isn't a thing that comes about.

Yeah, certainly true. I wish I had summarized more of Gwern's take, because he goes into piracetam + choline as a specific example. His take is that it doesn't violate the rule, but provides a case of a changing environment - burning choline for minor cognitive improvements is a vastly better deal than it was in a choline-scarce environment.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#590

Post by gcb0 »

woah wrote: post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

> Another theme that pops up sometimes is someone who says that they used to take stimulants and they were super productive, but they don't anymore, but actually they still do.

or never were. I mean "super" , just regular productive as on "motivated" .

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