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Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

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Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#571

It's quite bad atm. Senior C++ engineer specializing in system-level programming, worked across several challenging domains including database internals for the last several years. 10+ years of experience. Applied to around 25 jobs. Ghosted by 15 of them. Out of the 10 remaining, 3 of them are limited in terms of remote - to be considered you have to reside within certain countries. From the remaining 7 I only got th…

Where in Europe?

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fraud. If you are performing to expectation, no one is being defrauded. Anti-moonlighting clauses are nonsense.

If the expectation is that you're not moonlighting so you sign a contract saying that you're not but you actually are, it's fraud full stop.

that's not enough to show injury. If an employee does all their assigned work, there is nothing of value lost by the employer. No injury means no standing means no fraud.

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#573
post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always ponder, after the years of experience - wouldn't you just leave the interview if it feels like torture? I never ended up in a good place when it felt this way...

I'd say it's unprofessional to out & out leave the interview. Maybe for practical purposes it doesn't make a difference (though it can be a small world sometimes and you never know when something might come back to haunt you) but there's a certain amount of social norm & politeness involved, even if your own sentiment is "well they aren't respecting my time so why should I care?" Also it can come down to just a bad r…

I guess depends on the context, I walked away from interviews where people were non-professional, rude or just plain wasting my time due to poor job description and completely different expectations. On the bright side, you save them time too.

Also I would say poor HR practices are correlated to the quality of the workplace but that's just a hunch that I follow. Not science backed.

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country are you from? I don't see how it's physically possible to save 10 years of runway with a PhD's worth of debt and only 6 years of work. I did 10 years of labor with only a Bachelor degree's worth of university debt and my net worth is only enough to get me through 2 years if I liquidate everything... But my startup shares are illiquid (pre-ICO) and all my cryptocurrency is locked to earn forging rewards…

PhDs, at least in the US, are free. They actually give you a stipend, usually under $80K/year, but more than $50K/year I'd wager.

This depends highly on the program you are doing. Often, STEM grad students will get paid a stipend but 50k sounds pretty high for a Bio major, and it could include having to do a lot of teaching. I’d guess CS PhDs and especially industry-friendly fields do okay. But other fields don’t make anywhere near that much, if their phd is even paid at all.

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#575
post #140

If you're having trouble finding new work, know that the turn of the year is _always_ slow, every year. Hiring tends to pick up mid- to late January.

Yup! Knowing this, I'd intended to put off seeking for a new gig, but once recruiters know you're on the market in any capacity, they start beating down the door - I assume to stay busy, meet their quotas/goals, and to build up a list of potentials for when hiring actually picks back up.

After going through 2-3 rounds of interviews with 3 different companies since mid-Nov, all of which signaled "we love you and will be moving quickly with you" during the interview process, only to have them finally follow up with "some of our internal needs have changed with the end of year approaching, but we'll be in touch", I figured for my sanity and so that I could enjoy a little bit of my funemployment, that I'd just be upfront with them and set some boundaries.

Now, I've basically just been communicating "I appreciate your interest, but this is a bad time of year for bringing on new hires when considering year's end, so let's plan on touching base in January". We will see if this works out in my benefit or not - but it quickly became clear that we were all just wasting each others time going through multiple rounds of calls and exercises during the end of Nov and Dec.

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#576
Fortunately for me, I didn't walk away from my last gig empty handed, and so have been afforded a bit of time to figure out what's next.

As others have said, hiring really slows down in Nov and Dec. You have quarter end, the year's budget is running low, project priorities are being shifted with anticipation of the new year, etc.,. Having been on the hiring end many times over the last several years, I know that higher ups often push you to fill a position - but just as soon as you settle on a candidate during this time of year, they almost always pump the brakes on actually hiring until new year.

Knowing this, I'd initially planned no not looking for a new gig until 2023, but once folks hear your back on the market, you basically can't avoid people trying to play matchmaker for your next job (which is a good problem to have, I suppose).

Not wanting to pass up a potential opportunity, I accepted a few interview requests that came about from my personal network in Nov. After going through 2-3 rounds of ultimately fruitless interviews with 3 different companies since mid-Nov, I've decided to just wait and enjoy the downtime. Each company I interviewed with essentially signaled "you're perfect for our needs and will be moving quickly with you" during the interview process, then would go radio silent - only to have them follow up a couple weeks later with "some of our internal needs have changed with the end of year approaching, but we'll be in touch".

So I figured for my sanity and so that I could enjoy a little bit of my funemployment, that I'd just be upfront with them and set some boundaries. Now, I've basically just been communicating "I appreciate your interest, but this is a bad time of year for bringing on new hires when considering year's end, so let's plan on touching base in January". We will see if this works out in my benefit or not - but if they can't respect that, and aren't capable of acknowledging the reality of things, I'd probably not want to work with them anyways.

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#577

It's quite bad atm. Senior C++ engineer specializing in system-level programming, worked across several challenging domains including database internals for the last several years. 10+ years of experience. Applied to around 25 jobs. Ghosted by 15 of them. Out of the 10 remaining, 3 of them are limited in terms of remote - to be considered you have to reside within certain countries. From the remaining 7 I only got th…

Where in Europe?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#578

It's quite bad atm. Senior C++ engineer specializing in system-level programming, worked across several challenging domains including database internals for the last several years. 10+ years of experience. Applied to around 25 jobs. Ghosted by 15 of them. Out of the 10 remaining, 3 of them are limited in terms of remote - to be considered you have to reside within certain countries. From the remaining 7 I only got th…

Where in Europe?

It's one of the European Union countries. I'm feeling uneasy to share more details here, if you want, you can reach out through my email (on profile).

Re: Ask HN: How is the job search coming along for people who got laid off?

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that would be ideal, but realistically there's usually a pretty big power imbalance between someone seeking a job and a potential employer. I'd say that how ethical it is varies depending on the company. For example, Jimmy Johns has non-compete agreements. Someone working at Jimmy Johns has 0 ability to negotiate that. Are they unethical if they quit after a year or so to go work at Subway? I would say obviou…

No; this is simple, if difficult. If you want to be ethical, you cannot sign an agreement knowing what it says in full, and then violate that agreement when the counterparty has operated in good faith. What the person in your Jimmy Johns example has is the ability to seek work elsewhere. They are indeed acting unethically if they choose to work at Jimmy Johns, knowing what Jimmy Johns requires of its employees, then…

I'm not worried about "acting unethically" being a condemnation, but IMO actions taken in a vacuum can't really be judged to be ethical or unethical, which is what it seems like you're trying to do when you state that violating any arbitrary agreement is unethical. In fact I'm not sure you really fully believe this, since you add the proviso "when the counterparty has operated in good faith".

I would add that ethics is an entire branch of philosophy, so you know, there's so ambiguity between different folks' definitions. IMO it is ethical to violate contracts that would cause undue harm to one of the parties without good cause and furthermore it is unethical for a party to ask another to sign such a contract. And working at another sandwich place is not good cause. Clearly in your opinion you think it is unethical to violate such a contract because you appear to believe that violating any agreement (almost irrespective of context) is unethical. I'd be curious if you think that Jimmy Johns is ethical, unethical, or neutral for inserting such language into a contract in the first place. I would strongly disagree with that being either neutral or ethical.

Not that the US government is an arbiter of ethics, but Jimmy Johns has dropped their non-competes in several states after state Attorneys General filed suit against them: https://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/22/jimmy-johns-drops-non-compet...

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